July 04, 2005
Hashemite King Of Jordan Condemns Islamists
Now some of you may look at the above headline and ask me what a
"Hashemite" is. Cut down to its essence, a Hashemite is a member of the family of Muhammad. The Kings of Jordan are the last Hashemite rulers on Earth. That makes their words quite important -- more important than those of the House of Saud, whose claim to rule Arabia is relatively recent and based upon their support by the British in their rebellion against the Ottoman Turks during World War I. After all, they are the family of the Muslim Prophet, not upstart Bedouins.
Anyway, that means that King Abdullah II of Jordan has a special place among the rulers of the Arab world. Here is what he has said about the Islamists.
Abdullah called on the gathering to help implement a Jordanian initiative launched in November — dubbed the “Amman Message” — urging Muslims to reject extremism, embrace moderation and tolerate other religions.
“As a start, let us confess that we, Muslims, have not always fulfilled our obligations toward ourselves,” Abdullah said. “Some Muslims, or those who promulgate ’Islamic’ slogans, have defamed Islam and Muslims, intentionally or non-intentionally.”
The king apparently referred to Islamic extremists in Iraq responsible for scores of attacks targeting U.S.-led coalition troops, Iraqi security forces and in many cases ordinary Iraqis in their self declared holy war, or jihad, against that countryÂ’s foreign occupation.
So hear that, al-Qaeda and the rest of you terrorist scum. The family of your own Prophet rejects your words and actions as antithetical to Islam. The enemy of Islam is therefore not the United States -- it is Osama bin Laden, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and the rest of the terrorist scum who engage in terrorism who are the real enemies of Islam.
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June 29, 2005
The Enemies Of All Mankind
HereÂ’s a neat idea for dealing with Osama and every other terrorist on the planet. They are
hostis humani generis --
the enemies of all mankind.
TO UNDERSTAND THE POTENTIAL OF DEFINING TERRORISM as a species of piracy, consider the words of the 16th-century jurist Alberico Gentili's De jure belli: "Pirates are common enemies, and they are attacked with impunity by all, because they are without the pale of the law. They are scorners of the law of nations; hence they find no protection in that law." Gentili, and many people who came after him, recognized piracy as a threat, not merely to the state but to the idea of statehood itself. All states were equally obligated to stamp out this menace, whether or not they had been a victim of piracy. This was codified explicitly in the 1856 Declaration of Paris, and it has been reiterated as a guiding principle of piracy law ever since. Ironically, it is the very effectiveness of this criminalization that has marginalized piracy and made it seem an arcane and almost romantic offense. Pirates no longer terrorize the seas because a concerted effort among the European states in the 19th century almost eradicated them. It is just such a concerted effort that all states must now undertake against terrorists, until the crime of terrorism becomes as remote and obsolete as piracy.
What would be the impact of classifying terrorism along with piracy?
If the war on terror becomes akin to war against the pirates, however, the situation would change. First, the crime of terrorism would be defined and proscribed internationally, and terrorists would be properly understood as enemies of all states. This legal status carries significant advantages, chief among them the possibility of universal jurisdiction. Terrorists, as hostis humani generis, could be captured wherever they were found, by anyone who found them. Pirates are currently the only form of criminals subject to this special jurisdiction.
Second, this definition would deter states from harboring terrorists on the grounds that they are "freedom fighters" by providing an objective distinction in law between legitimate insurgency and outright terrorism. This same objective definition could, conversely, also deter states from cracking down on political dissidents as "terrorists," as both Russia and China have done against their dissidents.
Recall the U.N. definition of piracy as acts of "depredation [committed] for private ends." Just as international piracy is viewed as transcending domestic criminal law, so too must the crime of international terrorism be defined as distinct from domestic homicide or, alternately, revolutionary activities. If a group directs its attacks on military or civilian targets within its own state, it may still fall within domestic criminal law. Yet once it directs those attacks on property or civilians belonging to another state, it exceeds both domestic law and the traditional right of self-determination, and becomes akin to a pirate band.
Third, and perhaps most important, nations that now balk at assisting the United States in the war on terror might have fewer reservations if terrorism were defined as an international crime that could be prosecuted before the International Criminal Court.
I encourage you to read the article by Douglas R. Burgess Jr., “The Dread Pirate Bin Laden”. It may come out of the Legal Affairs, but it is incredibly approachable.
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What? No Torture?
Why isnÂ’t
this story getting more play in the mainstream media?
Senators from both sides of the aisle competed on Monday to extol the humane treatment of detainees whom they said they saw on a weekend trip to the military detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. All said they opposed closing the center.
"I feel very good" about the detainees' treatment, Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, said.
That feeling was also expressed by another Democrat, Ben Nelson of Nebraska.
On Monday, Senator Jim Bunning, Republican of Kentucky, said he learned while visiting Guantánamo that some detainees "even have air-conditioning and semiprivate showers."
Another Republican, Senator Michael D. Crapo of Idaho, said soldiers and sailors at the camp "get more abuse from the detainees than they give to the detainees."
In the last month, several senators, including some Republicans, have suggested that Congress should investigate reports of abuses at the detention center or that the military should close it to remove a blot on the country's image.
Oh, I see – the conclusions reached by the Senators is in direct contradiction to the editorial position of the New York Times and other mainstream media outlets. Therefore it needs to be hidden (like this one, on page A-15) or ignored completely.
But don’t worry – the facts won’t get in the way of Amnesty International and the rest of the rest of the Left making condemnations.
An official of Amnesty International, Jumana Musa, dismissed the visits as "this little Congressional show and tell." Ms. Musa said the statements did not address what she called the inadequate investigation of reported abuses.
"Whether or not people are being fed orange chicken," Ms. Musa said, "does not get at the heart of the issue."
Actually, it does go to the heart of the issue. These terrorist scum are not being abused, tortured, or killed, despite the claims of those who wish to make Gitmo into a gulag or a concentration camp. And the charges are being investigated, as the very report used by Senator Durbin proves.
But when will little things like the truth get in the way of the the LeftÂ’s irresponsible charge.
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June 28, 2005
Discourteous Hostage; Considerate Terrorists
Douglas Wood's manners have been called into question.
Apparently the Australian Left is upset because of the ‘boorish” behavior of the recently freed hostage. His offense? Calling the terrorists who held him hostage and executed the Iraqis held with him “assholes”. Or at least that is the view expressed by Andrew Japsan, the editor of The Age, Australia’s most left-wing major newspaper.
Said Jaspan: "I was, I have to say, shocked by Douglas Wood's use of the a---hole word, if I can put it like that, which I just thought was coarse and very ill-thought through and I think demeans the man and is one of the reasons why people are slightly sceptical of his motives and everything else.
"The issue really is largely, speaking as I understand it, he was treated well there. He says he was fed every day, and as such to turn around and use that kind of language I think is just insensitive."
You must be kidding. Kidnapped, threatened with death, forced to make a propaganda tape – that constitutes “treated well”?
And Japsan is not alone.
Consider Bob Ellis, who has written speeches and slogans for a collective of Left leaders such as Opposition Leader Kim Beazley, NSW Premier Bob Carr and Greens leader Bob Brown.
Ellis now praises Wood's kidnappers as "honourable men (with) a well-treated captive". Keysar Trad, spokesman for the Mufti, Sheik Taj el-Din el-Hilaly, also agreed Wood had been "well looked after".
The readers of The Age also have a few words to say.
“For those of us on the left, it’s a bummer that he didn’t come out and condemn the war,” wrote internet commentator Shay after Douglas Wood’s rescue. “But just because he’s not of our political persuasion doesn’t mean we should move into attack mode.” Ha! Wood’s fate was sealed as soon as he opted for “God bless America” over the more acceptable “Allah Akbar!” Loathing increased when he sold his story to the Ten Network. “Mercenary to the end,” shrieked one web-based hater. Another seethed: “You are lucky your captors had ethics and did not dispose of you.” The captors, who murdered their Iraqi hostages, had ethics? “Douglas Wood is a disgrace. He should hang his head in shame,” bitched one of many at The Age’s website. “He was profiteering from this wholesale slaughter,” yelped someone who might have been correct had his remark been directed at Saddam Hussein during his oil-for-food orgy with the United Nations. “I think the Woods are stupidly rich and that Douglas is the one who likes being rich best,” announced insightful Mike W. “Was he there helping Iraqis or was he there making money and working for the coalition?” asked Age reader Gregoire, unaware that it’s possible to do both.
And, of course, the real offense of Douglas Wood.
It seems that to a Leftist, this makes Wood the boorish inferior of the killers who beat him and held him captive. It is why journalist Tracee Hutchinson, in an Age column, calls him a "blustering buffoon", moaning: "It was enough that his words God bless America had been played over and over on his release."
Yep, that’s it – he dared to speak well of America. Such words are unacceptable to the Left.
Paging Mr. Rove.
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Well, they are assholes. And they are complaining? Ok...Hand Wringers of Australia goes nicely with Hand Wringers of America (HWA). Wonder what would happened had he said they are "Losers"? Well, come to think of it assholes are losers.
Posted by: mcconnell at Wed Jun 29 06:19:05 2005 (3kXfE)
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June 27, 2005
Churchill Advocates Fragging
What more need be said about
these two quotes from Hate-America-Firster Ward Churchill?
"For those of you who do, as a matter of principle, oppose war in any form, the idea of supporting a conscientious objector who's already been inducted [and] in his combat service in Iraq might have a certain appeal," he said. "But let me ask you this: Would you render the same support to someone who hadn't conscientiously objected, but rather instead rolled a grenade under their line officer in order to neutralize the combat capacity of their unit?"
and
Later, in a question-and-answer period, Churchill was asked whether the trauma "fragging" inflicts on that officer's family back home should be considered, he responded: "How do you feel about Adolf Eichmann's family?"
At a certain point, doessn't advocacy of a political position cross a line beyond which speech has no protection? And doesn't that "speech beyond the pale" include advocacy of mutiny and murder within the armed forces of the United States?
UPDATE -- The story on WND seems to have been lifted without attribution from the blog "Pirate Ballerina." To download the audio, click here. (Hat Tip -- Lone Star Times)
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RWR - I'm terribly sorry, but I believe the First Amendment is as absolute as the second.
That doesn't make that howling bigot and complete cretin Ward Churchill into anything noble, I just don't think you can silence him by force of law.
Rather, by force of popular opinion this idiot should be silenced. If nothing else, for fear of my soul I would refuse to hire this low-life, and hope that others do the same. He is evil and malignant, and his views promote hatred and violence.
How do I feel about Eichmann's family? I don't know them, so I cannot help but have the same generic feelings toward them as I do for any other human being I don't know...specifically, I wish them well and hope they have good lives. Being related to Eichmann does not make them evil. His position on this is as heinous as any other bigot's...specifically, that he clearly wishes harm and bad feelings to come to someone he doesn't know. He is openly prejudiced and this sick bastard is using his prejudice and bully pulpit to expand the hatred.
Sub
Posted by: Subjugator at Tue Jun 28 06:40:31 2005 (lkCzp)
2
I wonder what Ward would think about had he been that officer? Would his family mourn him?
The little turd.
Posted by: mcconnell at Tue Jun 28 07:30:36 2005 (SALCs)
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I'm raising the question of incitement. At what point is the line crossed, especially in regards to mutiny and murder during time of war? Hell, I'll ask outright -- do his words constitute treason, or at least sedition?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Jun 28 12:24:27 2005 (7abSD)
4
I'll readily admit they constitute sedition...but sedition isn't illegal. Those laws went away a while ago.
Sub
Posted by: Subjugator at Tue Jun 28 15:28:38 2005 (r/FBF)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Jun 28 17:53:35 2005 (a81lw)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Jun 28 17:55:24 2005 (a81lw)
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Good points, and you'd have a good case for one of them if there were any soldiers in the audience...though he'd have an EXCELLENT case for First Amendment protection.
The second one requires for us to be in a state of war, but the 'war on terror' notwithstanding, we are not at war. War requires that a declaration of war be made, and we're not likely to do that.
Sub
Posted by: Subjugator at Wed Jun 29 00:10:47 2005 (r/FBF)
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June 24, 2005
Ground Zero Desecration
HereÂ’s who they want to run the museum at Ground Zero.
A museum that is set to rise above the hallowed soil of Ground Zero has showcased art that the families of 9/11 victims are denouncing as offensive, anti-American - and a slap in the face of nearly 3,000 dead innocents.
The Drawing Center, a little-known cultural group in SoHo, has mounted works linking President Bush to Osama Bin Laden and showing a hooded victim of U.S. abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.
The storefront museum currently features a "pseudo-didactic PowerPoint presentation on the Axis of Evil" that appears to mock Bush's famous description of Iraq, Iran and North Korea.
Previous exhibits include a drawing of four airplanes swooping menacingly out of the sky - one of which is flying directly at a naked woman lying on her back, legs spread-eagled. The acrylic image is titled "Homeland Security."
What do the families of those who died in the 9/11 attack on our country have to say?
more...
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Terror Manuals Discovered
But no doubt Dick Durbin and the rest of the Left will be glad to explain to us that
these exist because we have failed to keep the cells at Gitmo appropriately climate-controlled.
US Marines have found manuals on taking hostages and decapitation during a raid on a guerrilla hideout in the Iraqi village of Karabla, near the town of Qaim, close to the Syrian border. The Arab newspaper Al-Sharq al-Awsat reports that in the hideaway the troops also found several hostages who were being held there by Islamic militants. The hiding place was being used as a centre for the interrogation and torture of hostages, and contained electrodes and other instruments of torture.
The manuals found were used as Jihad (Holy War) handbooks. The first was titled: "How to choose the best hostage", the second covered decapitation and was called: "Rules for cutting off the heads of infidels", and the third manual, "principles of the philosophy of the Jihad", was more theoretical.
The three documents, the last of which is 574 pages long, carry the name Abdel Rahman al-Aliya, which the newspaper says is probably a cover name to hide the identity of the real author. The hideout - in the volatile western Anbar province which has been the scene of fierce fighting between insurgents and the US-led forces - is believed to have been used by the group led by the Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He is credited with introducing the practice of decapitation to the activities of the Jihadist movement.
I’m curious – what is the position of Amnesty International and the International Red Cross on this?
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June 23, 2005
Terrorist Bitch Seeks To Destroy Hospital, Kids
The evil sought by Wafa al-Biri is impossible for me to understand.
Only two months ago, her family wrote to Sorooka Hospital in Beersheba, Israel, to thank them for the fine care she received after being burned in a gas stove explosion. She had an appointment on Monday morning, but didnÂ’t make it.
Thank God.
But Wafa didn't arrive for Monday's 8 a.m. appointment. "I didn't think much about it. I just marked her as one of the people who didn't show up," Krieger said.
Wafa had begun the journey to her appointment with Krieger, arriving at the Erez border crossing from Gaza into Israel around 5:30 a.m., armed with a letter detailing her appointment and her official permission to cross into Israel for humanitarian reasons.
But that wasn't all the young woman was armed with. She carried a 20-pound bomb inside her underwear. Her target was the outpatient clinic of Soroka hospital and, inevitably, the doctor who saved her life.
She told IDF interviewers that she also wanted to take out 30 to 50 Jews, including children.
And some people believe that this kind of animal should be rewarded with an independent country which will forever threaten the lives of every Israeli? That must be a sick joke, right?
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June 21, 2005
A Different View From Gitmo
I found
this over at National Review. What do you think, Senator Durbin? Are you prepared to call this military chaplain a liar, in addition to a war criminal who has committedcrimes against humanity?
Here's a list that might help you if you're willing to listen to an Ordained Elder who knows the facts rather than accusations made based on speculation. I'll respond here specifically to some of the ones I've heard.
1. The detainees have direct access to the International Red Cross representatives contrary to the accusations that they have no outside contact. Also, all the detainees are allowed to write and receive mail from family.
2. The detainees have their food prepared according to Islamic guidelines. The call to prayer is broadcast for them to go to prayer. Each detainee has the direction to Meccah painted in their cell. They are allowed to practice their religion without interference and are given the religious items they need to do so. They are allowed to observe Ramadan.
3. There are strict guidelines and training concerning human rights protections. If a service member sees a violation they are to report it and if asked to violate someone's human rights they are to consider it as an unlawful order. Those who violate are subject to prosecution.
I know, Senator, that such a man is not nearly as trustworthy as an enemy cobattant who violated international law in taking up arms agains the United States, but I hope you will give his claims some weight.
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June 19, 2005
But This Brings Silence From Durbin
I guess the
Senator from Illinois just isn't disturbed enough by reports of real torture against real innocents to issue any sort of condemnation. But American troops are Nazis for turning off the AC.
What I see in front of me is absolutely heartbreaking. It's two of four hostages who are being taken away, rescued. They were rescued this morning. They're Iraqi, and they were found in this complex that Marines first thought was a car-bomb factory. In fact, they did find what they believe was a potential car bomb or suicide car bomb.
But inside this complex, they found something even more sinister -- four Iraqis who were handcuffed, their hands and feet bound with steel cuffs. They're now being taken away for medical treatment, one being borne away on a stretcher.
The man in intense pain that they're trying to get into a vehicle, has been tortured, he says, and has all the marks of being tortured with electricity. His back is crisscrossed with welts. The other man is even ... in worse shape. Their crime was to be part of the border police.
The Marines came in here this morning, rescued them. The battle is still raging around us. I don't know if you can hear the gunfire, but this is a major offensive to get rid of insurgents and foreign fighters in this city near the Syrian border....
... Two young men say they don't know why they were seized. They say they didn't hear the voices of their captors, only people whispering in their ear that they were going to be killed.
But we have just watched the two who were most badly treated be carried out of here for medical equipment, one of them on a stretcher, an older man who worked for the border police, along with his colleague. ... the Marines showed us the room where he says he was hung by his feet, his head dipped in water and then tortured with electric shocks repeatedly.
One of the other men, the other border police, was too weak, really, to tell us what had happened. But he obviously was in very, very bad shape.
They were rescued this morning as Marines and Iraqi forces came into this complex, which included an underground bunker, weapons stockpiles and other things, and found them here. Their captors have fled.
Bring on a Senate censure -- or better yet, his resignation.
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Where's Amnesty International? Newsweek? Time magazine? And Dick "Turban" Durbin? And all the torture chambers discovered by the Marines ever since the Iraq war? Why the mum?
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 11:39:11 2005 (SALCs)
2
I “almost†feel sorry for the guy. The democrats have thrown him out there to be the sacrificial lamb … all for a little Bush bashing that no one will remember next week.
Posted by: jack at Sun Jun 19 20:08:49 2005 (VNmqc)
3
I don't know about that -- if this were just direced at the president I'd agree, but his words seem to attack the troops as well. bad form.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 22:54:39 2005 (Mk4mX)
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Terrorist In Arkansas
A Muslim student at the University of Arkansas, upset that his doctoral dissertation would require another six-months to defend, decided to leave off his studies and
become a terrorist.
Federal agents arrested Arwah J. Jaber, a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Palestine, on a criminal complaint accusing him of knowingly attempting to provide support to a foreign terrorist organization.According to a criminal affidavit filed with the U.S. District Court in Fort Smith, an anonymous tipster from Fayetteville placed a call earlier this month to the Department of Homeland Security to inform them that Arwah Jaber, a Ph.D. candidate in chemistry at UA, intended to go to Palestine to fight in the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
A video of the May 14 graduation at the University of Arkansas shows Jaber joining thousand of of other students in commencement exercises. Jaber was a candidate in the program for the last four years, and according to the affidavit, had only six months left to go before he had completed his studies. But just days before graduation, Jaber's attitude had suddenly shifted as evidenced in an e-mail Jaber sent to his doctoral advisor on May 11. The professor turned over the e-mail after being questioned by investigators. It reads in part:
“Since Dr. Wilkins was unable to help me graduate this May, I have decided to take an honorable job in Palestine with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Organization to pursue a more noble cause -- freedom, justice and peace for the Palestinians and to fight the Israeli terrorism. This action will make it impossible for me to return to the states to defend my dissertation -- assuming I am still alive."
more...
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June 18, 2005
A Reminder To Durbin
John Kass of the Chicago Trbune offers
this pointed reminder -- and rebuke -- to Senator Dick-less Durbin regarding his outrage over the non-torture inflicted upon terrorist prisoners at Gitmo.
We're at war, Senator. How can you possibly justify that statement?
And you know what? We have learned from history. The reason buildings at Guantanamo are full is because there are two big holes in the ground in New York.
Senator, weren't you one of those legitimately complaining that U.S. intelligence dropped the ball and something had to be done so it wouldn't happen again?
It is being done. Much of it isn't polite or civilized and some of it upsets me, like the abuse of the Koran. Suspects have been pushed around, hurt, and enemies have been given propaganda fodder.
Clearly, Americans don't like it when others get hurt. But Americans really don't like it when Americans get hurt.
At any rate, this is not the kind of torture I've heard about. In World War II in Greece, my father was handed over to the Germans on the suspicion he aided downed British airmen. They beat him, day after day, making him dig his own grave. He played dumb to survive and it worked. An uncle was forced into a labor camp. The Nazis didn't use Christina Aguilera music on him, though luckily, he too survived.
Sen. Durbin, in other places, suspected terrorists have their feet flayed with rods, their families raped; they're force-fed a quart of olive oil, then tied, seated, to a block of ice. By your own words, Senator, Guantanamo isn't remotely like that.
You don't have to apologize to the Republicans in the White House. But Senator, you should apologize to the nation.
And if you don't have the stomach for the work, please have the guts not to play partisan politics with what has to be done.
Seriously.
Better yet, Senator -- RESIGN!
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1
Like the rest of the wingnuttia populace, this columnist is a complete jack-ass. Some how it eludes this alleged "professional" that Durbin was reading a report from the FBI. Instead of Durbin resigning perhaps you (and the rest of wingnuttia) should resign from commenting on the news until you re-educate youselves in the critical thinking department.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 15:24:43 2005 (aHbua)
2
Ah, ther we have it -- another Leftist out to set up "reeducation centers" for those who disagree with the Leftist party line of the day.
Durbin was not simply reading from teh report -- he characterized Gitmo as the equivalent of concentration camps, gulags, and the killing fields of Cambodia. That is NOT in the report -- that is Dick-less Durbin's own assessment of this nation's government and the servicemen and women who are assigned there.
So why don't you go down and buy yourself a little bit of truth, rather than the Daily Kos talking points. And while you are at it, why don't you also see if you can develop some American values -- like respect for the right of Americans to engage in speech you disagree with.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 15:46:37 2005 (fSzTq)
3
How about you make a stand against torture, or the appearance there-of, you simple buffoon. Think real hard about this, if we appear to be using torture in our interrogations, why should the other side refrain from doing so.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 19:34:06 2005 (aHbua)
4
Oh yeah you porcine piece of fecal droppings, you call me a "leftist/liberal" in your usual attacking manner and you expect me to just take it
WELL FUCK YOU, you wing-nut asshole. I would strongly suggest that before you gin up your attack machine again, we swap DD214 info... oh what's that you fat fuck you never had balls enough to sacrifice 4 or 6 years of your precious life in defense of the constitution you allege you care about. You only give a shit about the constitution when it serves your purpose. Furthermore you're the asswipe that mentioned re-education centers, all I did was suggest your critical thinking skills were lacking and in need of refreshing, you lying fuck.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 19:43:50 2005 (aHbua)
5
Hey, Lefto-fascist, I did my damnedest to get into the military, intending to make a career of it just like my father did. Unfortunately, twenty-three years ago some moron in an armor-plated security van rendered me I incapable of passing my physical when he ran a stop-sign and cut off my buddy and I when he pulled onto the highway in front of us. I spent the next 3-4 years rehabbing, and tried to enlist about once every six months during that time. I tried to do the same in August 1990, with the same results. So don't give me that crap about service -- it is quite clear that whatever lessons in Americanism allegedly come from military service didn't take in your case, or else you would realize that the Constitution applies to every American.
And you are the one talking about the need to "re-educate" all of us -- I thought you would simply folow the tried and true Lefto-fascist methodology of silencing and imprisoning your critics until they have been propagandized, beaten, broken &/or killed.
Lastly -- WATCH THE LANGUAGE! WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION IN THE PAST!
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 01:34:45 2005 (XJvMc)
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So, torture is absolutely unnecessary even if they try to extract info from a prisoner of war who has knowledge of a nuclear briefcase bomb hidden somewhere on the east coast? Perhaps coffee cakes and tea might do the job?
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 03:13:04 2005 (jXhtw)
7
TORTURE IS ALWAYS UN-NECESARY. There are much better proven methods of getting information from your "detainees". As an American these are actions I do not approve of in my name. That the residents of wingnuttia do support this says more about their under-educated red-neck/racist asses than it does about me. Especially the bigot that runs this site.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 04:40:02 2005 (aHbua)
8
I'll agree that torture is unnecessary -- but those of you who are upset that the gitmo detainees don't have turn-down service and a mint on the pillow have defined torture down so low that going out to mow the grass in normal June weather here in Houston would be considered torture if a detainee were made to do so.
Most of us are disputing if the charges in the report are true (lying about torture is a known tactic) and if they constitute torture.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 05:44:05 2005 (rMdBV)
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Oh and chaining a human in a sitting "fetal position" for eighteen to twentyfour hours is not torture?? Does making a human being sit in their own excrement qualify? I could care less if their meals are "religiously correct", and I don't give a shit if their housed in tents, and sleeping bags. Ask youself why would the FBI agent lie? They like "Boy King", Dickless Cheney, "Rummy" et.al are sworn to uphold the constitution. From what I see unlike the aforementioned mal-administration fuck ups, the FBI is trying to uphold the
LAWS OF THIS LAND!!
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 06:15:49 2005 (aHbua)
10
"There are much better proven methods of getting information from your "detainees"."
Such as? I'm curious to hear this one.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 07:11:11 2005 (SALCs)
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Well if the example of WWII may be used, American airmen have reported that they gave up more intelligence data when the interrogator just sat and had a conversation with them. When they were tortured, they would say whatever they thought the German's wanted to hear, just to make the pain and agony stop. If you want reliable intell, you do not need to resort to torture, or even the threat of it. For you on the right to approve tells me all I need to know.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 07:19:26 2005 (aHbua)
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I seriously doubt that. There is also the fear that torture will be used and they'll spill their guts. How do you know there weren't any implied threat of torture just by having a "casual" conversation?
What were your orders if you were to be captured by the enemy regarding intelligence info?
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 07:28:23 2005 (SALCs)
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If it'll save a single innocent life, I am for the torture of twenty non-innocents.
Sub
Posted by: Subjugator at Sun Jun 19 08:13:40 2005 (r/FBF)
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sub,
I actually proposed a hypothetical scenario involving, say, a neutron bomb hidden in a briefcase where FBI know it's hidden somewhere on the east coast and know that a captured terrorist knows exactly where the bomb is. I asked one Liberal nutball whether torture would be allowed under this circumstance knowing that perhaps 20 million people would die. He said, "No." That alone was a confession on his behalf that he favored the terrorists rather than to try and save millions of innocent people's lives...hypothetically speaking.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 09:58:32 2005 (SALCs)
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McConnell your briefcase neutron bomb scenario is specious at best. There is no way, even with the technology the US government has at its disposal, to make a brief case bomb yeild larger than 250-300 kilotons. Further there is no way a single device that size could kill twenty million outright. Shows just how much you know about weaponry, and tactics.
Posted by: at Sun Jun 19 11:02:52 2005 (aHbua)
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Goddamn, I forgot the name thing again.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 11:03:28 2005 (aHbua)
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Guess you didn't see the word "hypothetical".
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 11:32:45 2005 (SALCs)
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I wish i had thought to ask him before he was banned for going ballistic -- how many dead Americans are acceptable to him before he is willing to allow for the comfort of a terrorist to be sacrificed?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 13:08:12 2005 (esPOP)
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that was the whole point of my hypothetical scenario...even with 20 million, it wasn't worth the sacrifice of one terrorist's comfort to get the info. We are dealing with lefty yahoo lunatics. But I get the feeling they're trying to preserve their own hardline party thinking without resorting to agreeing that perhaps it would be better to beat the snot out of a terrorist to supply us the info to intercept that briefcase bomb in time. I'm sure they'll agree right along if they knew that their kids are in the blast zone and that one terrorist's comfort is worth more than the kids' lives along with pain and suffereing post-disaster.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 16:29:26 2005 (jXhtw)
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And I am not sure that i am in 100% agreement with you as far as actual torture being used -- but i have no problem with these folks being made uncomfortable if it helps national security in a real sense. The folks in the Turn-Down and Pillow-Mint Brigade view matters very differently, though.
Look at police interrogation techniques -- success is had by making folks uncomforatble, short of actual torture.
But then again, I think folks like Durbin and Bubba probably don't support the police, either.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 16:52:03 2005 (ibsIB)
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Sorry RWR, but in a time sensitive situation, I'd have the belt sander and strings of fish hooks out in a freaking HEARTBEAT.
Bubba: I don't care if the bomb is the size of a semi or is hidden in a cargo container - the point is that it's dangerous to large numbers of people. I can think of a lot of things to get someone to talk, and the best part about them is that if you find out they have lied, you can save worse for later (and make them know what the price of lies is).
See, since I have nerve damage in my knee, I have a firm understanding of how *long* something can hurt. For me, it's forever. Thankfully, it's (usually) relatively low grade and I've even gotten used to it.
Now; what if the nerve damage was *really* severe? What if we tied the person down and force fed them a blended cocktail of pig's blood, bacon, and Jack Daniel's? What if we told the person that when he finally died, he would be buried in the skin of a pig (I'm told Muslims believe that will prevent entry into Heaven)? What if we threatened to air drop ten million gallons of pig's blood across Mecca in retaliation?
To save the lives of innocents, upon conviction from a military tribunal (in this case, an emergency one), I say we do anything it takes. I'd brand things that the person found to be sacriligious onto their skin. I would make freaking Savak and the Mossad look like pre-school teachers. Not only that, this would be Constitutional according to our current courts.
The reason?
This is not a punishment.
There is no guarantee in the Constitution of any freedom of harsh information extraction methods. This applies
DOUBLY when one is on foreign soil. The Constitution only applies on American soil.
*bing*pow*zip*...done.
Even if the Constitution did apply and it WAS a punishment, it would be Constitutional. Wanna know why?
1. You're going to say it's cruel. Oh, but it is cruel. Oh, I'll grant you cruelty. Were I in charge, I would be phenominally cruel. I would be cruel like you cannot believe.
2. It is *NOT* unusual. This is done in many countries today and things of this magnitude have been done by us in the past.
Now...read the document. It doesn't say a punishment must be cruel OR unusual. It says a punishment must be cruel *AND* unusual to be unConstitutional. There's a TITANIC difference there.
See, punishments are usually inherently cruel, but they are not often unusual. That said; leeway is left for a punishment that is merciful but still is not terribly cruel. Some examples of unusual punishments that are not cruel:
1. Some people were stealing from crab pots, which is a felony. Rather than go to prison, they had to wear sandwich board signs saying the following for about three weekends for eight hours per day (paraphrased): Molesting crab pots is a felony punishable by up to three years in prison and a fine of up to $5,000. I know, because I molested one.
This was an actual case. The criminals sued, calling this cruel and unusual. It is unusual but also is in fact quite merciful. I'd MUCH rather wear a sandwich board than be a convicted felon who had 18 months in prison (with another 18 months on parole).
2. A vandal who rides a motorcycle through a community flower garden is convicted of . As punishment, he must purchase new plants and replant the entire area as well as beautify a (different) area.
Very unusual, not in the least bit cruel.
Oh yeah, FYI - the courts agree with that reading of the Constitution.
Sub
Posted by: Subjugator at Mon Jun 20 13:10:44 2005 (r/FBF)
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Hey, Bubba...I'll compare DD214s with you any day of the week. Except mine will show active duty in Iraq and Bosnia (91 B [Combat Medic] 701st MSB, 1st ID).
Your's most likely will not. But thanks for serving none-the-less. As John Kerry has already shown, not all service is honorable, especially when you come home and shit all over your band of brothers.
Which is exactly what you are doing here.
The main problem you seem to be grasping here, is that the enemy combatants (a.k.a.
terrorists; a.k.a.
the people trying to kill you and me and our repective families) are NOT being tortured. Just because you stand up and yell, "It's torture" does not make it so.
If you truly believe that these terrorists are being tortured, I know for certain that you have never seen combat.
You might have been brave enough to serve at one point in your otherwise pathetic existence, but since then you have withered into a shell of man.
Posted by: Robbie at Tue Jun 21 01:32:51 2005 (lbWbV)
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June 16, 2005
Why Geneva Does Not Apply At Gitmo
Let's be really clear for Senator Dick-less Durbin about why US policy at Guantanamo Bay regarding the non-applicability of the Geneva Convention is perfectly correct.
Here's who the Geneva Conventions cover.
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.
6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
Of these categories of persons, only #2 could be held to apply -- except for the fact that the terrorists violate conditions b, c, and d, putting them outside the framework established by the Geneva Convention. So while we generally give them treatment consistent with the Geneva Convention, any deviation is not a violation because they are not covered in the first place.
Hat Tip: GOPBloggers
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However, "The Judge" Napolitano on Fox last night cited another Geneva provision that says tribunals must determine the
exact status of captured combatants. Apparently, the US hasn't formally done that yet.
Posted by: Hube at Fri Jun 17 03:33:37 2005 (hCXVm)
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Durbin was reading from a report by a FBI agent, yet the right-wing blowhard crowd tried to spin this as Durbin's own words.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Fri Jun 17 16:53:18 2005 (aHbua)
3
Actually, the words were Durbin's, for all the left-wing kneepad brigade tries to spin it otherwise.
The unsubstantiated charges (labelled as such by the report) are from the report, but the characterization of them as similar to Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or Khmer Rouge Cambodia was the product of Durbin's own fevered imagination.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Jun 17 17:47:32 2005 (JxF3+)
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Yet you are not troubled by the report, but rather the words of Durbin. This shows me exactly what kind of weasles you and the rest of your right-wing bretheren really are.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 00:00:48 2005 (aHbua)
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Have you actually read the report?
Loud music and extreme temperatures? Heck, sounds like at least three of my former workplaces, not a concentration camp, gulag, or reeducation camp..
And besides, we've seen from the al-qaeda training manuals that these folks are trained to make false torture claims at every opportunity.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 01:32:26 2005 (Rb8P4)
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3Bs -- it appears RWR is correct that Durbin embellished the FBI agent's remarks:
link.
Posted by: Hube at Sat Jun 18 04:25:56 2005 (2sYx6)
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Check that: Fox is incorrect, it seems. The memos cited by Durbin are publicly available. See
Media Matters.
Posted by: Hube at Sat Jun 18 04:45:01 2005 (2sYx6)
8
Would you mind giving this a reliable source, not Media Matters. After all, David Brock is a confessed pathological liar.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 04:59:47 2005 (Rb8P4)
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How come we don't see Liberals lambasting for the treatment of hostages put in 4x4 cages? And then later their head is sawed off.
People who make unreal and dishonest comparisons of Gitmo to that of Gulags and such are supporting and helping the enemy. Is it not any wonder that al Jazeera ran Durbin's comment multitudes of times to make a point and a case on the terrorists' behalf? No wonder the terrorists are laughing because idiots Liberals want to wring their hands over club Gitmo!
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 05:20:48 2005 (U5Ldx)
10
You have to understand, mcconnell, that such condemnations would require Liberals to impose their personal, Western morality upon non-Western people who they do not see as capable of living up to the standards of Western civilization.
Ultimately, it comes down to the Left believing that such folks cannot aspire to reach the standards set by Western civilization -- and certain racist assumptions that underlie that.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 05:50:01 2005 (1haYf)
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Agreed. However, my comment back there was pretty much a rhetorical question. Tried to draw a parallel on their ideology of hate. And when that happens they've become oblivious to their own stupidity.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 08:32:01 2005 (SALCs)
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How's about the simple fact we are supposed to ne above that shit. No other arguement is acceptable, and if you think there is one than I submit it is you and not those of us protesting that are Un-American. esides I did my six years of military service so go fuck youselves when you question my patriotism.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 13:19:33 2005 (aHbua)
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Oh -- no other argument is acceptable? Are you attempting to define for me what i must believe in order to be a good American? I thought you Leftists didn't believe in doing such things, and considered that to be a form of Fascism?
And as far as the "I served" argument goes -- so did Benedict Arnold. So did Tim McVeigh. So did Lee Harvey Oswald. So did John Muhammad. And while I'm not comparing you to them, I hope you see that such the argument you put forth is so much crap.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 14:21:07 2005 (5kG8+)
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anybody who served in the military deserve my respect. However, comparing Gitmo to that of the Gulags or Pol Pot is beyond reprehensible. In fact, downright dangerous and irresponsible by giving the enemy the morale boost because of Leftists hand wringing over some song being played 24/7. Anything to do to score points, even if it means giving a cache-ful of ammo dump over to the enemy to be used against us when it was ludicrous in the first place.
These are the worst of the bunch we've captured. And we're at war with the enemy. And we do what we must do to extract information and figure out who's who. Saying "Pretty please" ain't gonna work. And they aren't children, either, with "childlike innocence", which is the biggest crapper of them all. Mohammed Atta was university taught.
Remember, we're at war. If ya'll want to go to war, you need to remember there'll be more Gitmos in the future...preferrably the next time it'd be at the artic circle station in Alaska.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 17:27:28 2005 (U5Ldx)
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All I can say in response to MCConnell is , where's your proof that these are the worst of the worst. Have you seen anyone of them so much as arraigned yet? I know I haven't, and if they have been why was it done in secret? Again I reiterate, we as a nation are supposed to be above that type of shit.
Augusto Pinochet was fond of secret "arraignmants", as was Stalin, but we're better than Hitler since he made no pretense, and just disappeared your ass to the concentration camps.
The very idea that we're engaging in interogation techniques that are open to interpretation as torture should trouble ALL AMERICANS. This is not what we are supposed to be about, besides torture almost never "works" as any intelligence you get is suspect. If you don't think so, ask John McCain, or any other American that served as a POW. The most disgusting thing is the argument that these detainees do not qualify as POWs. Tell you hypocrites what, when the inevitable happens and an American soldier is detained, and not accorded rights under Geneva IV, don't go squealing about the "enemy" violating our troops "rights". Remember WE set the precedent for this.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 19:27:44 2005 (aHbua)
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Enemies captured during time of war don't get arraigned, you leftist moron.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 01:16:22 2005 (XJvMc)
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bubba, we're at war. I'd rather leave open the possible use of interrogation techniques rather than outright forbidding them. I don't condone pulling of fingernails, however if he has knowledge of a briefcase nuclear bomb hidden somewhere on the east coast then go for it.
Oh, so the massive reconstruction efforts in Iraq are not worth mentioning in the newspapers? But Club Gitmo is?
I guess it's very important for Leftist American to ensure that America look and behave like a paper tiger then? Giving the enemy an upper hand? That's exactly what Durbin did.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 03:29:43 2005 (jXhtw)
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Oh, btw, I'm sure Leftist Americans will surely raise hue and cry over the 4 Iraqi (border guards) hostages rescued by Marines. Hostages were brutally tortured by their capturers with whips, electrocution, bathtub filled with water, lack of food, unsanitary conditions, NO AIR CONDITIONING BY GOD!, etc..etc...
Kind of put the "childlike innocence" of the aggressors to a different level, eh? Where's the condemnation, bubba?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/18/otsc.arraf/index.html
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 03:44:11 2005 (jXhtw)
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Don't you realize -- according to the Left, Iraqis who help the US are no different than those who collaborated with the Nazis.
Never mind the free and fair elections earlier this fall that clearly represent the will of the Iraqi people -- or that the "insurgents" are, in fact, foreign terrorists who target the Iraqi people with daily terror attacks. Those murderers are the moral equivalent of the Minute Men (just ask Michael Moore) or the French Resistance (ask Dick-less Durbin).
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 04:00:47 2005 (3JAqj)
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RWR: I detest Brock and MM as much as the next guy, but their links, even though their own, appear to connect to authentic documents.
Posted by: Hube at Sun Jun 19 04:07:27 2005 (+AbeZ)
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Gee you mean the massive reconstruction being done by Bechtel, and Halliburton? Both corporations with near improper ties to this administration? The massive reconstruction that has eight
BILLION missing? $8,000,000,000.00 Do you have any idea how much cash that is? We could do a shit-load of good with that missing money. The head-in-the-sand followers of the "Boy-King" would rather turn a blind eye to this, and listen to the crock-of-shit fictions about the insurgency being in its "Last Throes". Since Mr. Know-It-All RWR is an alleged history teacher maybe he can answer this question: " In what year was the first American casualty in Vietnam, and how many years did it take to get to 1700?" Answer me that then tell me why I should believe the lies that this administration (or any other) spew.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 04:19:27 2005 (aHbua)
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Answering your questions gets sorta difficult, depending upon when you want to officially classify the involvement in Vietnam as having started (do you go all the way back to the advisors under Eisenhower, or do you start with the Kennedy Administration?)
Taking the figures I have at hand,, which start in 1961, it took until some time in the middle of 1965 to reach the 1700th casualty. The involvement, of course, was rather different, and so the relative lengths of time are not really comparable, given the significantly lower number of troops in Vietnam at the time. I would therefore have to argue that the relative rates, taken per 100 troops in country, was higher in Vietnam than in Iraq.
As for your DNC.Michael Moore talking points, don't forget that Halliburton and Bechtel have a long history of military contracts dating back decades under both GOP and Jackass Party administrations.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 05:39:38 2005 (rMdBV)
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Well if you must know our "involvement" in Vietnam began in 1945, when an OSS Lt. Colonel (one, A. Peter Dewey, on Sept 26 1945) was killed in the then Saigon. So we're looking at a twenty year span to reach 1700. As I knew, you did not know the correct answer, none of your fellow wingnut pricks seem to either. Some history teacher you are.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 06:26:46 2005 (aHbua)
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Like I said -- it depends on what year you want to start counting and define as the beginning of US involvement. As I recall, for purposes of including folks on the Wall the starting date is in the late 1950s, after the French ran away. I had figures handy dating from the early 1960s, when our involvement became more formal. But I won't dispute you on your point factual information there -- but will dispiute whether it signifies what you want it to signify. After all, for most of that period we are talking about a "troop commitment" of under 100 men, so the figures are not comparable.
Heck, I'm suure some sailor on liberty got knifed in a brothel or a bar fight several decades before the casualty you cited -- why don't you start counting there?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 06:43:07 2005 (rMdBV)
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Oh, and I'd like to apologize for the fact that, for all my encyclopedic knowledge of several millenia of human history, I wasn't able to immediately give a flawless interpretation to your ambiguous question, nor was I able to produce the date and name you requested.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 06:45:34 2005 (rMdBV)
26
Maybe you could have answered if you paid attention in the late 70's and early 80's when the now "definitive" documentary ("Vietman, The 10,000 Day War")and companion book (Vietnam: A History, Stanley Karnow) were around. You obviously neither watched the show, nor read the book.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 07:01:47 2005 (aHbua)
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Actually, I watched and read them.
And i repeat -- it all depends upon your choice of start date.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 07:17:57 2005 (rMdBV)
28
You read them and you fail to see the analogies between the "insurgencies" in both instances? What have we actualluy gained in Iraq? Has the "Boy-King's" misadventure actually made us more safe? Are our ports really anymore secure than they were on Sept 10, 2001? I submit to you that my perception of 9-11 is a bit different, being less than 90 miles away from the WTC, than is your perception being 1500 miles away. You only think your region will someday be a "target" we know damed well if the terrorists strike again, NYC or Washington DC are prime targets. Frankly the terrorists don't give a damn about Houston, or virtually any other of the "heartland" cities, they want NYC, Wash DC, LA, or Chicago, maybe a Philadelphia, or Boston, but beyond them, there is just not enough "instant media" reaponse in the rest of the U.S. for them to care.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 08:07:29 2005 (aHbua)
29
I read them, understood them, and disagree with your analysis.
And I think you might benefit from checking out the port facilities here in Houston, America's fourth largest city and the home of a huge proportion of the nation's petrochemical refining capacity LOCATED RIGHT IN THE HOME STATE OF THE PRESIDENT AND IN THE CITY WHERE HIS PARENTS LIVE. Houston is a rather juicy target, if you think about it.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 09:27:37 2005 (9thpR)
30
Actually, Seattle was also a target.
"Ressam, 32, was arrested December 14 at a Port Angeles, Washington, at a border crossing. He was in a rental car authorities said contained bomb-making materials. Experts have estimated the amount of explosives could have destroyed a large office building. "
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/01/21/border.arrest.01/
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 12:13:03 2005 (SALCs)
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May 30, 2005
Do I Understand This Correctly?
I don't know that I want to comment too extensively on the arrests of Rafiq Abdus Sabir and Tarik Shah on charges arrested on charges of conspiring to aid terrorists. I'd like to wait for a little more information to come out before forming an opinion.
But I am concerned about one paragraph I read in this article.
As recently as May 20, during a meeting at a New York City apartment, Sabir indicated he would travel shortly to Saudi Arabia to treat the wounds of jihadists at a Saudi military base, prosecutors said. Travel records showed he was scheduled to leave Thursday.
Now, was the whole "jihadists at a Saidi military base" just a ruse by the FBI to reel these guys in? Or are we being told, ever so obliquely, that the Saudis are providing medical care for wounded jihadis on their military bases? I guess what I'm really asking is if this should be seen as evidence of the Saudis playing both sides of the street.
Thoughts, comments, and reactions?
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There is no reason for any American to think that the Saudis share our interests, values, or goals with respect to the war on terror. The royal family goes through the motions of allied friendship while at the same time, pandering to the majority of its populace, spends a good sum of money supporting jihadists. State controlled news papers routinely print outrageous stories about America's decadence, and Jewish conspiracies to control the world. That 15 of the 19 highjackers came from Saudi Arabia is not a mere coincidence; giving aid and comfort to the enemy of the United States is not only a possibility, it is probable.
Posted by: Mustang at Mon May 30 03:20:10 2005 (nP7cz)
2
Mustang is right. Almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, and there's been nothing done by the Saudis to indicate that they want more than US money and power. If we were going to invade another country post-9/11, Saudi Arabia would have been the logical choice. It's not gonna happen though. You know why.
Posted by: dolphin at Mon May 30 04:32:24 2005 (2h6qI)
3
Agreed, Dolphin. The US is depending on the energy we get out of Saudi Arabia too much to stop whatever they have going for terror, and support for terrorists.
When it comes right down to it, Saudi Arabia is too powerful to be a target in the war on terror. Hell, they own the oil, and we need the oil. Economics trumping ideology yet again, IMHO.
~A!
Posted by: ~A! at Mon May 30 15:47:59 2005 (zjq8s)
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May 23, 2005
An Important Note On The Red Cross
The
Wall Street Journal editorializes today on the International Committee of the Red Cross and certain statements made by one of its officials.
The first concerns a story we heard first from a U.S. source that an ICRC representative visiting America's largest detention facility in Iraq last month had compared the U.S. to Nazi Germany. According to a Defense Department source citing internal Pentagon documents, the ICRC team leader told U.S. authorities at Camp Bucca: "You people are no better than and no different than the Nazi concentration camp guards." She was upset about not being granted immediate access shortly after a prison riot, when U.S. commanders may have been thinking of her own safety, among other considerations.
A second, senior Defense Department source we asked about the episode confirmed that the quote above is accurate. And a third, very well-placed American source we contacted separately told us that some kind of reference was made by the Red Cross representative "to either Nazis or the Third Reich"--which understandably offended the American soldiers present.
We called the ICRC last Wednesday for its side of the story, and a spokesman in Geneva confirmed that "there was a serious misunderstanding between the ICRC's team leader and [Coalition] authorities during our last visit to Camp Bucca." The ICRC also confirmed that "the team leader subsequently decided to leave the Iraq assignment."
The spokesman added, however, that he "can categorically say that the team leader did not in any sense compare the detention regime in Iraq to what happened in the Third Reich." Pressed as to whether he could rule out those terms having been used, the spokesman declined, citing the ICRC's practice of confidentiality when it comes to relations with the governments with which it works.
Now it seems that the alleged quote is at least as well sourced – better sourced, in fact – as those in a certain recent Newsweek piece. And as the Journal notes, the so-called confidentiality policies of the ICRC didn’t stop the organization from commenting on allegations against the US by unlawful combatants at Gitmo. The organization is only willing to use its confidentiality policy to protect itself from charges of bias.
Of particular concern, though, is this little tidbit.
Which brings us back to the "Nazi" reference by that ICRC official at Camp Bucca. We wouldn't normally report the remarks, however offensive, of a single official. But after we started asking about the incident, we began to hear from other sources that someone was attempting damage control by alerting the ICRC's friends in the media and State Department about what we might report. One media proponent of the "torture" allegation against the U.S. warned on the Internet that we were out to smear the ICRC (which, we should add, is not the same as the American Red Cross).
So I guess that the ICRC not only views the US as the moral equivalent of Nazi Germany, but also considers any negative coverage by the press to be a smear.
Has the day come for the US to shut out the ICRC, in the hopes that some other organization might do a better job of monitoring the rights of prisoners?
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How dare you twist the article around by not quoting every letter of it. Oh well, I guess it's just another case of an attack by The Dishonest And Intellectually Deficient Right.
Posted by: dolphin at Sun May 29 23:16:58 2005 (V5cZa)
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May 20, 2005
Religion Of Peace Watch
Once again, we see
just how peaceful your typical Islamist is.
Muslim protesters today called for the bombing of New York in a demonstration outside the US embassy in London.
There were threats of "another 9/11" from militants angry at reports of the desecration of the Koran by US troops in Iraq.
Some among the crowd burned an effigy of Tony Blair on a crucifix and then set fire to a Union flag and a Stars and Stripes.
Led by a man on a megaphone, they chanted, "USA watch your back, Osama is coming back" and "Kill, kill USA, kill, kill George Bush". A small detail of police watched as they shouted: "Bomb, bomb New York" and "George Bush, you will pay, with your blood, with your head."
Demonstrators in Grosvenor Square, some with their faces covered with scarves, waved placards which included the message: "Desecrate today and see another 9/11 tomorrow."
The demonstration as not organized by extremist groupt -- it was set up by some British groups that I understand are quite mainstream, the Muslim Council for Britain and the Muslim Parliamentary Association of the UK.
Of course, they brought in a guy who should not have been permitted to leave Gitmo before receiving his 72 virgins.
Former Guantanamo Bay detainee Martin Mubanga told the crowd he had seen a copy of the Koran "desecrated" during his time at Camp Delta.
He said: "This was one of the methods they used, throwing the Koran, my Koran, on the floor in my cell."
How many Bibles -- heck, how many Korans -- were desecrated and destroyed on 9/11? That didn't seem to stop your heroes, so I don't particularly sympathize.
More at GOPBloggers.
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problem is that they don't know they'll be received by 72 gay virgins when they die.
Posted by: mcconnell at Fri May 20 17:27:21 2005 (d7On1)
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McWeenie, so do you. You're delusional in your own religion -- thinking your path is right.
Greg, again, that is not the whole point -- it is not the desceration of the Koran that made them react -- it was the final straw that broke the camel -- we treated them badly.
R-
Posted by: Me is the Ridor at Sat May 21 13:10:52 2005 (nWmj6)
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Frankly, my attitude is "Screw the Islamists" as long as they continue to make unprovoked war agaunst the US -- and against Christianity, as they have since the founding of their cult by the false Prophet Muhammad.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat May 21 13:32:56 2005 (7xsr8)
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Actually, it is their own culture (Islam) that treated their ownselves badly....not the United States.
In the Middle East and elsewhere in Muslim run countries, Women have no rights are abused systematically. There is a caste system (India, basically). Human rights issue is not a concern (except through the UN are they hypocrites with the "holier-than-thou" attitude). Kill anybody who re-convert to another religion (other than Islam) or loses the faith. Desecrate the koran and they get executed or get jailed for life. They persecute and execute gays to an extreme. Execute those who committed infidelity. They persecute these people severely.
In short, those countries are just one big honking cult.
In Saudi Arabia on April 16, 2001, five homosexuals were sentenced to 2,600 lashes and 6 years in prison, and four others to 2,400 lashes and 5 years’ imprisonment for “deviant sexual behavior.†Amnesty International subsequently reported that six men were executed on charges of deviant sexual behavior, some of which were related to their sexual orientation, but it was uncertain whether the six men who were executed were among the nine who were sentenced to flogging and imprisonment in April.
According to Amnesty International, at least three homosexual men and two lesbians were publicly beheaded in January 1990. The Islamic Penal Law Against Homosexuals, approved in July 1991 and ratified in November of that year, is simple. Article 110: “Punishment for sodomy is killing; the Sharia judge decides on how to carry out the killing.†Article 129: “Punishment for lesbianism is one hundred (100) lashes for each party.†Article 131: “If the act of lesbianism is repeated three times and punishment is enforced each time, the death sentence will be issued the fourth time.â€
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.asp?ID=5704
Hey, if we did any of that here in the United States on a systematic basis we'd be the pariah of the world (well, we already are in a way without even doing any of that).
And here we have people complaining about how bad America is. And let's not get into this "Sharia" thing in Canada, too.
Please get your reality straight. Your complaints are entirely misplaced. Start rooting for the rights of others in other countries for a change.
If you don't like it, please move to a Muslim country and you'll find out exactly what persecution really means.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun May 22 04:31:21 2005 (94LEQ)
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REMOVED BY SITE OWNER FOR INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT -- YOU WERE WARNED.
Posted by: Me is the Ridor at Sun May 22 11:00:43 2005 (nWmj6)
Posted by: Me is the Ridor at Mon May 23 09:42:31 2005 (nWmj6)
7
You used that nickname, and also made an inappropriate demeaning comment.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Mon May 23 10:45:47 2005 (7O4eF)
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May 19, 2005
Amazon.Com Quran Controversy
Am I the only one who is skeptical about the report of a Muslim woman receiving
a defaced Quran in the mail? After all, the entire thing is entirely too coincidental., in light of the recent newsweek fraud.
Azza Basarudin, 30, said she received the Quran by mail on May 5 after ordering it through a used books division of Amazon.com that allows customers to order directly from third-party sellers approved by the company.
When she opened the Quaran, Basarudin said she found profanity and the phrase "Death to all Muslims" written on the inside page in thick black marker.
Basarudin, a graduate student in women's studies at UCLA, said she was overwhelmed by fear similar to what she felt after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks when her sister and mother were the target of anti-Muslim slurs.
"I dropped the book because I didn't know what to do," she said at a news conference at the Islamic Center of Southern California. "I was paralyzed after 9/11 — I couldn't leave my house for a couple of weeks — and I realized that fear was coming back."
A Muslim women’s study major? This woman sounds like a professional hysterical victim, ready to take offense at any perceived slight to her gender or religion. That she would be “overwhelmed with fear” seems to be a bit of an extreme reaction – until you consider that she claims she was left so stricken by a few harsh words directed at family members following the MUSLIM ATTACK ON AMERICA on 9/11 that she couldn’t even leave her home. That sounds like more padding for the impending lawsuit, rather than anything grounded in reality.
Of course, the professional victim groups in the Muslim community are already swarming, making demands.
Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, said his organization wants a public apology and investigation from Amazon.com, as well as the firing of those responsible for mailing the desecrated book. He would also like Amazon.com to fund educational programs that foster religious tolerance.
If you cut through Salam’s baloney, you will realize that what he really means is “I want Amazon to make a big fat donation to our group.” Never mind that the book didn’t ever pass through Amazon’s hands – it came directly from a little used bookstore in Pennsylvania. The owner claims not to know how this happened. Both companies have made an effort to make amends.
Richard Roberts, owner of Bellwether, said he doubts the book was defaced by his employees. The company buys used books at bargain prices from individuals, other book stores and libraries and then resells them through Amazon.com and other outlets.
He said before this incident, his six employees gave each book a cursory check before shipping and didn't look inside the pages.
Roberts said Bellwether has since instituted a more stringent quality control check. Bellwether is also suspended indefinitely from selling Qurans through Amazon.com, Smith said.
"I feel awfully bad about it. It's really a shame," Roberts said in a phone interview Wednesday.
Bellwether apologized to Basarudin by e-mail and offered to replace the book. Amazon.com also apologized, reimbursed her for the Quran's cost and mailed Basarudin a gift certificate, Smith said.
Of course, that isnÂ’t nearly enough for the offended Basarudin, who is already making noises that sound suspiciously like she is planning to file a lawsuit.
"I couldn't even go near this book for a couple of days," she said. "I feel like I'm being violated all over again because I'm a Muslim."
I hate to say it, but I suspect that it is actually the folks at Amazon and Bellwether Books who are being violated because you are Muslim. After all, there is a pattern to many of the claims of “hate” directed against Muslims – they are often false reports perpetrated by the alleged “victim”. Until and unless there is more evidence to support Basarudin’s claim, I’m going to suspect that she is the person who wrote these nasty comments in the Quran.
And IÂ’m going to hope that Amazon and Bellwether stand firm against the demands to assume dhimmi status.
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May 18, 2005
The Posadas Case
Now I understand the need to arrest terrorists, even if they are going after a tyrant like Castro. However, there is a minor detail in
this story from the Washington Post that leaves me concerned about turning Luis Posada Carriles over to Venezuela.
He was twice acquitted in Venezuela in the airliner bombing. In 1985, still jailed while prosecutors appealed, he escaped a Venezuelan prison and began a two-decade odyssey through Central America.
Tried and acquitted twice. Not once, but TWICE. And yet Luis Posada was still in jail.
This case reeks of injustice, especially since extradition will mean turning him over to Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez, who has gutted the Venezuelan justice system, or – indirectly – to his close ally, Fidel Castro. At what point do we reach the point where we must declare that we find complying with this extradition request is, in and of itself, an injustice.
I don’t know – and am glad I am not faced with making the decision.
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So, I Guess It Was An Assassination Attempt
This report out of the Republic of Georgia.
The FBI said on Wednesday a grenade thrown at President Bush during a visit to Georgia last week had been a threat to the American leader and had only failed to explode because of a malfunction.
In a statement, a Federal Bureau of Investigation official at the U.S. embassy said the grenade, thrown while Bush made a keynote speech in Tbilisi's Freedom Square on May 10, had been live and landed within 30 meters (100 feet) of the president.
"We consider this act to be a threat against the health and welfare of both the President of the United States and the President of Georgia as well as the multitude of Georgian people that had turned out at this event," said the statement from C. Bryan Paarmann, the FBI's legal attache at the embassy.
"This hand grenade appears to be a live device that simply failed to function due to a light strike on the blasting cap induced by a slow deployment of the spoon activation device," said the statement.
Paarmann said a reward was offered for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the perpetrator.
And to all my anti-American Leftist readers, I have two words for you consider before you make comments lamenting the failure to murder the commander-in-chief.
President.
Cheney.
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VP Cheney is being talked as the "dark horse" for the 2008 run. Even though he said, "No." But that is what he said when about being VP to George Bush and helped him find a VP....he ended up finding nobody better other than himself.
Posted by: mcconnell at Wed May 18 17:35:46 2005 (AbJW2)
2
You just made yourself out to be the biggest nigger in the country - just because somebody is a democrat doesn't make them anti-american. Besides, it's the republicans fucking everything up and bungling around while Kim Jong is planning on attacking America. Stupid asses! Not to mention, republicans used pseudo-terrorists on 9/11 to attack liberal NY. Don't be pointing fingers to the left!
Posted by: SB at Wed May 25 11:53:19 2005 (jm7xX)
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Senator Byrd, would you please quit using that word on my site.
And as far as Kim Jong-il is concerned, I wish we would just get it over and vaporize the little Stalinist & his nukes in one gi-mongous mushroom cloud.
And by the way -- which administration was it that dmade a "peace in our time": declaration with DRNK and then didn't bother monitoring to see that the agreement was carried out? I'll give you an hint -- the president was more concerned qwith getting head from some ugly fat wench.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed May 25 13:00:22 2005 (+yHO0)
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May 17, 2005
Lest The Left Forget Who The Real Theocrats Are
This is the latest from
terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, whose forces are killing American troops and Iraqis who want to be free.
"Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and worshippers of the cross."
Now, are you Leftists really sure you want to whine about Christian conservatives? Or are we your target of choice precisely because you know that we mean you no harm?
(Hat Tip -- Lone Star Times)
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May 11, 2005
Give Them Their Wish
The Washington Post has a wonderful story about Marines fighting the foreign forces of terror in Iraq. It is one of the more moving things IÂ’ve read on the subject.
IÂ’m particularly struck by this line from one of the Marines.
"They came here to die," said Gunnery Sgt. Chuck Hurley, commander of the team from the 1st Platoon, Lima Company, of the Marines' 3rd Battalion, 25th Regiment, that battled the insurgents in the one-story house in Ubaydi, about 15 miles east of the Syrian border.
"They were willing to stay in place and die with no hope," Hurley said Tuesday. "All they wanted was to take us with them.''
Notice the clear evidence that these are not Iraqis that shows up later in the article.
The costly equipment, as well as body armor later recovered from the bodies of dead insurgents, suggested that the fighters were foreigners, the military said.
Crying “Allahu Akbar,” these foreign fighters are out to kill as many Americans as possible before they die. Godspeed, Marines, in giving them the death they desire – sending them to burn in hell with the false god they serve.
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The false god?
How naive are you? Allah and God is the same thing.
And not only that, RWR, did you hear about the anti-American riots in Afghanistan?
Why? Because the Marines flushed the Koran down the toilet. Why do that? Is it necessary to do that?
I have few copies of Holy Bible somewhere in my boxes -- I'll flush one today.
R-
Posted by: Me is the Ridor at Wed May 11 18:18:30 2005 (nWmj6)
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The god of the Islamists is not the same God worshipped by Christians or jews. We can debate the issue of whetehr the god of mainstream Muslims is the same as the God of the Jews and Christians, but given the fundamental differences in beliefs between the belief systems I start from a position of scepticism that they are the same, no matter what claims are made by the Quran.
And as far as the desecration of the Bible by you goes, let's point out a significant diffrence from cases of Qyranizc desecration -- we Christians won't murder you for mistreating our book, but the Muslims will do so for disrespecting theirs.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed May 11 22:26:26 2005 (WDGDO)
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There is a big difference between allah and God.
There is only one muslim afflition...
There are many different Christian Affliations.
Quran says you are either a true muslim or you are an infidel, and all infidels must be killed.
The Bible says there are Jews and Gentiles, and we are offered the Grace of God without putting those that don't want to believe to death.
Big differences, unless you are shoving a godless agenda, which is right up your alley R..
Posted by: Scubachris at Thu May 12 04:07:19 2005 (AktpP)
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Scubachris, your comments proved that you do not know a thing about Islam.
Islam has its own sects. It has two branches of Islam: Sunni and Shi'ites.
Your comments just proved how stupid you are.
R-
Posted by: Me is the Ridor at Thu May 12 08:26:45 2005 (nWmj6)
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While i wouldn't use derogatory terms that are slurs for the menatally handicapped, I would have to agree that Chris doesn't have a full grasp on islamic theology. You are correct in noting the two major schools of Islam, which then each break down into different schools and traditions, such as Sufism and Wahabbism.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu May 12 12:48:08 2005 (Qk1Ou)
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April 23, 2005
Stewart Unrepentant
I didn't think I could get any angrier than I was when I originally
posted on this last night. I was wrong. The San Francisco Chronicle has run a
"news story" (actually a thinly disguised advocacy piece) about Lynne Stewart, the convicted terrorist supporter who admits that she passed operational information on behalf of the blind sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman. Not only did this violate federal law, it violated special administrative measures (SAM) imposed by the Justice Department to prevent the terrorist leader from continuing to direct his folowers from a federal prison.
"I argued that lawyering can't be interfered with by government regulations,'' Stewart said. "SAMs now seem to override a lawyer's sense of what is right and proper to do for a client. The government will decide that now.''
Damn straight the government will decide those things, when it comes to protecting national security. You ignore two things in your flawed analysis. First, the man committed an act of war against the United States and had been duly convicted at the time you acted. Second, when an attorney becomes a party to a conspiracy to commit a criminal act, attorney-client privilege no longer applies. Your complaint is, in effect, that you got caught and were not held to be above the law because you are a lawyer.
If you live out in the San Francisco area and want to show your contempt for this traitor, here's where you can view her schedule.
And since the Left has organized a letter writing campaign in an attempt to get her a lenient sentence for her betrayal of the United States, I would like to urge loyal Americans to write the judge urging that Stewart face the maximum possible sentence. Send them to the court at the following address.
Honorable John G. Koeltl
United States District Judge
Southern District of New York
United States Courthouse
500 Pearl Street
New York, New York 10007
My best advice is that they be typed, respectful, and note the seriousness of Lynne Stewart's actions and her utter lack of remorse for them. If you or someone close to you suffered any harm due to the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center or other terrorist attacks on the United States, be sure to share that with the judge. Focus on the fact that America is currently in a battle for its survival against Islamist jihadis of the nature assisted by Stewart, and that her sentence should be severe enough to deter others from following her anti-American example. Urge the judge to sentence her to the maximum penalty of 30 years in prison.
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April 22, 2005
Convicted Terrorist Supporter Given Freedom To Travel
If this does not make your blood boil, nothing will. Lynne Stewart, convicted of knowingly and intentionally giving assistance to and communicating messages for the terrorist mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing, is being allowed to go on a public speaking tour!
A federal judge is letting convicted terror lawyer Lynne Stewart jet across the country as part of her campaign to argue that she was unjustly prosecuted and to rally her supporters to raise funds for an appeal.
Trial Judge John Koeltl approved Stewart's request to travel to the Left Coast, where she has arranged to speak at nine events in the San Francisco Bay area and participate in at least six radio and TV interviews, starting today.
A jury convicted Stewart Feb. 10 of fraud, providing material support to terrorism, and filing false statements while she represented blind Egyptian terror cleric Omar Abdel-Rahman, the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Her sentencing has been pushed back to September.
Stewart faces up to 30 years in prison.
Frighteningly enough, this is not Stewart's first trip to give a speech to her fellow radicals and terrorist supporters. Since her conviction, Stewart has been permitted to travel to Florida, California and Boston. Seems that she is not considered to be a flight risk. Still, isn't she a security risk, given her past actions?
Frankly, I don't know why she was even allowed to stay on the streets pending her sentencing. She ought to be in a cage down at Gitmo, with the low-level terrorists who have made war on our nation!
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September 11, 2004
In Memoriam --9/11/2001


So many died that horrible day.
One was my classmate at Washington and Lee University, Commander Robert Allan Schlegel.
I would love to tell you he and I were close. That would be a lie.
I would love to share stories of great times together. I don't have any.
What I can tell you is that I remember Rob Schlegel as a good guy, a friend of some friends. I remember him as being a bright guy, sitting a couple rows over and a couple seats back in a US History class. One of those classmates you later wish you had gotten to know when you had the chance.
Rest in Peace.
May all all the victims of September 11 and the many men and women of our armed forces who have died fighting terrorism since that day rest in peace.
And let us not forget those heroes who still live.
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