June 16, 2005
Here's who the Geneva Conventions cover.
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.
5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.
6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
Of these categories of persons, only #2 could be held to apply -- except for the fact that the terrorists violate conditions b, c, and d, putting them outside the framework established by the Geneva Convention. So while we generally give them treatment consistent with the Geneva Convention, any deviation is not a violation because they are not covered in the first place.
Hat Tip: GOPBloggers
Posted by: Greg at
05:24 PM
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Posted by: Hube at Fri Jun 17 03:33:37 2005 (hCXVm)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Fri Jun 17 16:53:18 2005 (aHbua)
The unsubstantiated charges (labelled as such by the report) are from the report, but the characterization of them as similar to Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, or Khmer Rouge Cambodia was the product of Durbin's own fevered imagination.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Jun 17 17:47:32 2005 (JxF3+)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 00:00:48 2005 (aHbua)
Loud music and extreme temperatures? Heck, sounds like at least three of my former workplaces, not a concentration camp, gulag, or reeducation camp..
And besides, we've seen from the al-qaeda training manuals that these folks are trained to make false torture claims at every opportunity.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 01:32:26 2005 (Rb8P4)
Posted by: Hube at Sat Jun 18 04:25:56 2005 (2sYx6)
Posted by: Hube at Sat Jun 18 04:45:01 2005 (2sYx6)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 04:59:47 2005 (Rb8P4)
People who make unreal and dishonest comparisons of Gitmo to that of Gulags and such are supporting and helping the enemy. Is it not any wonder that al Jazeera ran Durbin's comment multitudes of times to make a point and a case on the terrorists' behalf? No wonder the terrorists are laughing because idiots Liberals want to wring their hands over club Gitmo!
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 05:20:48 2005 (U5Ldx)
Ultimately, it comes down to the Left believing that such folks cannot aspire to reach the standards set by Western civilization -- and certain racist assumptions that underlie that.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 05:50:01 2005 (1haYf)
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 08:32:01 2005 (SALCs)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 13:19:33 2005 (aHbua)
And as far as the "I served" argument goes -- so did Benedict Arnold. So did Tim McVeigh. So did Lee Harvey Oswald. So did John Muhammad. And while I'm not comparing you to them, I hope you see that such the argument you put forth is so much crap.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jun 18 14:21:07 2005 (5kG8+)
These are the worst of the bunch we've captured. And we're at war with the enemy. And we do what we must do to extract information and figure out who's who. Saying "Pretty please" ain't gonna work. And they aren't children, either, with "childlike innocence", which is the biggest crapper of them all. Mohammed Atta was university taught.
Remember, we're at war. If ya'll want to go to war, you need to remember there'll be more Gitmos in the future...preferrably the next time it'd be at the artic circle station in Alaska.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sat Jun 18 17:27:28 2005 (U5Ldx)
Augusto Pinochet was fond of secret "arraignmants", as was Stalin, but we're better than Hitler since he made no pretense, and just disappeared your ass to the concentration camps.
The very idea that we're engaging in interogation techniques that are open to interpretation as torture should trouble ALL AMERICANS. This is not what we are supposed to be about, besides torture almost never "works" as any intelligence you get is suspect. If you don't think so, ask John McCain, or any other American that served as a POW. The most disgusting thing is the argument that these detainees do not qualify as POWs. Tell you hypocrites what, when the inevitable happens and an American soldier is detained, and not accorded rights under Geneva IV, don't go squealing about the "enemy" violating our troops "rights". Remember WE set the precedent for this.
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sat Jun 18 19:27:44 2005 (aHbua)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 01:16:22 2005 (XJvMc)
Oh, so the massive reconstruction efforts in Iraq are not worth mentioning in the newspapers? But Club Gitmo is?
I guess it's very important for Leftist American to ensure that America look and behave like a paper tiger then? Giving the enemy an upper hand? That's exactly what Durbin did.
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 03:29:43 2005 (jXhtw)
Kind of put the "childlike innocence" of the aggressors to a different level, eh? Where's the condemnation, bubba?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/18/otsc.arraf/index.html
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 03:44:11 2005 (jXhtw)
Never mind the free and fair elections earlier this fall that clearly represent the will of the Iraqi people -- or that the "insurgents" are, in fact, foreign terrorists who target the Iraqi people with daily terror attacks. Those murderers are the moral equivalent of the Minute Men (just ask Michael Moore) or the French Resistance (ask Dick-less Durbin).
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 04:00:47 2005 (3JAqj)
Posted by: Hube at Sun Jun 19 04:07:27 2005 (+AbeZ)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 04:19:27 2005 (aHbua)
Taking the figures I have at hand,, which start in 1961, it took until some time in the middle of 1965 to reach the 1700th casualty. The involvement, of course, was rather different, and so the relative lengths of time are not really comparable, given the significantly lower number of troops in Vietnam at the time. I would therefore have to argue that the relative rates, taken per 100 troops in country, was higher in Vietnam than in Iraq.
As for your DNC.Michael Moore talking points, don't forget that Halliburton and Bechtel have a long history of military contracts dating back decades under both GOP and Jackass Party administrations.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 05:39:38 2005 (rMdBV)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 06:26:46 2005 (aHbua)
Heck, I'm suure some sailor on liberty got knifed in a brothel or a bar fight several decades before the casualty you cited -- why don't you start counting there?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 06:43:07 2005 (rMdBV)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 06:45:34 2005 (rMdBV)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 07:01:47 2005 (aHbua)
And i repeat -- it all depends upon your choice of start date.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 07:17:57 2005 (rMdBV)
Posted by: Bubba Bo Bob Brain at Sun Jun 19 08:07:29 2005 (aHbua)
And I think you might benefit from checking out the port facilities here in Houston, America's fourth largest city and the home of a huge proportion of the nation's petrochemical refining capacity LOCATED RIGHT IN THE HOME STATE OF THE PRESIDENT AND IN THE CITY WHERE HIS PARENTS LIVE. Houston is a rather juicy target, if you think about it.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jun 19 09:27:37 2005 (9thpR)
"Ressam, 32, was arrested December 14 at a Port Angeles, Washington, at a border crossing. He was in a rental car authorities said contained bomb-making materials. Experts have estimated the amount of explosives could have destroyed a large office building. "
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/01/21/border.arrest.01/
Posted by: mcconnell at Sun Jun 19 12:13:03 2005 (SALCs)
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