1 you a dumba.. , sure this kids were in the wrong for driving a stolen car, but in your estimationg everyone that makes a bad choice and dies has no room for sympathy. Do you realize if everyone paid the ultimate price for a bad decision there would be no one left including you........

2 How dare you judge these boys that you do not know. Only ONE of them had been drinking, only ONE of them stole that car and went around after a footbal game picking up other kids. The truly sad thing is, is that the ONE who did these things is the ONE still alive. Those four boys were someones children, brother, grandchild and friend. The kids and adults that are mourning their passing have that right, how dare you judge them.

3 I don't say they "deserved" to die -- I did not indicate that had no sympathy. I indicated that I found the presentation of these boys as tragic heroes to be unseemly. I don't question anyone's right to mourn. And teemu -- since you seem to have such a strong objection to my judging people (I'm not -- I'm judging their presentation of the boys as "only the good die young" heroes) -- how dare YOU judge ME. But then again, I guess hypocrisy is a strong suit on your part.

4 "Now the story goes on to stir up sympathy for the driver who survived and a sense of loss of these boys – none of whom was old enough to drive the car they stole. They all get presented as good kids – even though they were out well after curfew joyriding in a stolen car. I have no evidence of possible drug or alcohol use, but I won’t be surprised if it turns out that the boys were drunk or high – it would fit with what we do know from the article." Do you know who stole the car? Do you know if all of the boys were aware if the car was stolen? We don't and we're family. "Tragic Heroes?" What the hell is heroic about suddenly losing your child? Hero?? They aren't being porojected as heroes, the community has gathered in sympathy for loss of life at such a young age. My condolences to your experience during your seminary days, but what gives you the right to comment on something YOU don't know the facts about? Ian was my nephew, his mother is my sister, and you, Mr. Rhymes with right, are an ass. Seminary???

5 i cant believe you can sit here and judge these four lost souls. they are family to everyone and if you ask any body they would sit here and tell you that they love each and every one of those kids. its not there fault. they didnt know that if they made that decision to get in the car that later that night they would reck it and die. i believe not one of them should of died or even got hurt but for you to sit here and tell me that they were all drunk and high is an outrage to alot of people. i think that you should really get your facts straight. i can say that these kids being killed taught us a lesson about our selfs and the decisions made by teenagers these days. but i really didnt believe the ones who everybody loved had to go out and die like that.

6 I don't judge their souls -- I judge their actions. As for the "It's not their fault" line, then whose fault is it? Were they forced into the car at gunpoint? I didn't think so -- they made a choice to engage in reckless and illegal activity that had, sadly , their deaths as a consequence. By the way, I don't tell anyone they were drunk and high -- I speculate that they might have been, but i do not in any way shape or form assert that such was the case. In fact, i make a specific point that we have NO evidence in the story to support the speculation. One of my former students was stabbed to death a couple of weeks ago. He went to a party where he was not invited, got into a fight, followed the folks he fought into their home to continue the fight, and was stabbed to death by one of them. For me to say that the young man made some bad choices that resulted in his death would be to make an accurate statement. For me to try to make a hero of him because he died as a result of those choices would be wrong, no matter how much I cared for him.

7 you know what? two months later, it still feels like yesterday. i lost my brothers, my best friends that day. and you have the GALL to sit here and judge their actions, their souls, whatever. it doesnt matter whos fault it is. the point is two months ago we lost four amazing people to stupid mistakes. and two months later, we still mourn. so get off your damn high horse and be a human. for crying out loud. fault, actions, and motives dont matter now. think about this, and remember them. -cassie.(the head doctor)

8 I guess what gives me the "GALL" (see, I can use all caps, too) to judge the actions of these boys is that I have some moral values -- it seems to me that you don't. And actually, fault and actions do matter now -- expecially after folks in your community held these boys up to be some sort of tragic heroes. There was no heroism in what happened to them -- only tragedy. As a teacher, I've seen too many young people die after making a series of bad choices. I've seen them held forth as "only the good die young" heroes, despite the fact they were killed dealing drugs, robbing gas stations, driving drunk, or engaging in gang activity. Such kids are not heroes, and we do the young people of our communities not one ounce of good by memorializing them as such. Am I saddened by the deaths of thes kids? Yes, I am. Do I feel for you and have compassion for your loss? Yes, I do. If you wee here, I would take you in my arms and cry with you, as I did the Monday after Thanksgiving with a student whose brother (a former student) was killed in a fight with opposing gang members. There is nothing right or fair about the way your brother (or hers) died, and I would never tell you there is. Your brother and his friends did not deserve to die. But I also have compassion for all the kids who are not hearing the message that needs to be spread after deaths like these -- bad choices have bad consequences, and those who lose their lives under such circumstances are models of "what not to be," no matter what redeeming qualities they had. And if you are still too close to this deep personal loss to accept my words, I hope that one day you can understand what I am trying to say.

9 hey one of my friends were friends with all these kids which would make me friends so dnt say bad stuff bout them if it hurts her then it hurts me

10 You need to learn to read more closely -- what I said was that they should not be celebrated, not that they were evil or should not be mourned. Their deaths are sad and tragic, and I know they cut very deeply, but they were the result of bad choices they made. Look at the comment above yours to understand what i am trying to communicate.

11 Put yourself in the situation. Think of the person who means the most to you. Now, put them in of of the four boys' postitions. No disrespect. But, you cannot tell me or anyone else you would not show even the least bit of emotion. We are human. We all make mistakes. It is in our nature. And nobody, not even you, is perfect. Whether you want to believe it or not. Oh and they weren't the ones who wrecked the car. The driver did, obviously, so you cannot blame it on those four. But, don't diss the driver either because he has to live with killing four of his best friends for the rest of his life. That is enough punishment. I also take it very offensively that you say these kind of things. Everyone of those boys were loved and cared so much about by many many people. One of them happened to be one of my best friends I've ever had. I'm sure everyone else takes your bullshit offensively too. I don't see why they wouldn't. I know this is going to sound really screwed up, but I do not nuder any circumstances mean anything by it. I hope your (most important person in your life) dies in a horrible car accident the same way these boys did. Do you take that offensively at all? You can't even deny that you do. But, once again, it was an example, nothing was meant by it.. If your going to keep on saying this shit, your making yourself a bigger ass than what you already have. This here shows you are a very self-centered person who cares about himself/herself and hi/her self only. Your not right about everything. Obviously, you think you are. But, really your not. Now, if you want to say anything else to this, I'll be more than happy to listen cause I am a bitch and I will say whatever I want to no matter how screwed up it may be. So, dear. Try me. And don't pull a you-don't-know-me, because you deffinately didn't know any of those boys. Thank you and have a nice fucking day.

12 How can you call yourself a teacher. i mean with you being a teacher i though you would understand more then most people. I mean you as a teacher see how kids can make mistakes and clean up. or see thing because kids mess up its not always there fault. What about if something has a bad homelife. Or if the kids parents dont care. For the kids to be out that late the parent didnt care what there kids did. I mean yea its thier fault for gettin in the car, and all that. But i mean all kids make mistakes at one time. With each mistake people learn. I believe all things happen for a reason. But i kno what you are doin is wrong. I mean these boys should be remembered for there whole lifes not for the one thing they did wrong. I mean for you to call ur self a teacher makes me sick. how why And one of those boys was my friend. And you kno what dont believe everyhting you hear. Because this boy was in some trouble.. but he was gettin better.. he was a sweet kid. ALOT of people liked him. I just think these boys should rest in peace and be remembered for the good and the bad.. i mean have you done ur homework..did u even try to learn who these boys were... fuck no you didnt.. then you shouldnt post anything with out the facts.. What you are sayn is your opinion and you are aloud to have it. But you kno what u have said has hurt alot of people. i wanted to cry after all that reading. all of us have been threw enough. and with what you said doesnt help. in fact it brings all back and pisses me off.. i hope you are happie.. you have hurt alot of people....

13 Oka, Paige is very correct. And so are all these other people. I believe there is a God. You may not. I really don't give two shits about what you think right now. God forgives each mistake a person makes if you follow his footsteps. One of these boys was among the greatest guys every. I'm sure they all were. I'm pointing out one in particular. He was a very great friend of mine.He used to live in my old city and then when I moved, he returned to the same city i moved to also. They didn't deserve to die, whether their actions were wrong or not. Do you have no soul? How dare you say those God-awful things about these boys. I know, they would have grown up to be amazing young men. You need to fuck off and grow a heart. As what Paige said before, I also am a bitch at heart and will tell you what it is. These boys deserve gratification for the things they have accomplished. I can't get over the fact how someone that probably didn't even know these boys at all can come off saying such hurtful things. One day, someone will realize that it was you that wrote this and you will be faced with horrible tribulations. You will, get what you deserve for writing this. And making it public. I guess I will end here. By the way, Fuck Off And Die

14 Oh by the way Get bent you sorry so-called sick ass "teacher"

15 Listen, you little punk, I don't give a shit that you are offended. In fact, your expressed desire that the most important person in my life die in such an accident indicates that you are a screwed-up little child with no moral values who will no doubt be making equally irresponsible choices soon -- probably ones resulting in you becoming a serial baby-mama spawning fatherless little brats that you expect gainfully employed taxpayers like myself to support. Let's look at the situation from an OBJECTIVE point of view. Five kids went joy-riding in a stolen car. Four were killed when the driver wrecked it. Their deaths were the direct result of the inappropriate and irresponsible behavior of each and every one of them. That does not make them heroes to be celebrated -- that makes them bad examples to be rejected. As I said in some of the comments above, i don't have a problem with your mourning these boys -- Lord knows that grieving is healthy and there is much to be mourned in the deaths of these boys. I even feel bad for you, since no one should have to lose friends so young in such a senseless manner. What I am saying is that they should not be celebrated, for it gives the wrong message. That you cannot see that is an indication of your own moral blindness. Oh, you are right about one thing -- I didn't know these boys. However, my years teaching high school give me a pretty good sense of what they were like, and I have probably had similar young men walk through my door over the years. If anything, that CONFIRMS my views.

16 Ah, looks like the rest of the gang is out to spew profanity and ignore my point. When folks die as a result of their own poor choices and criminal behavior, they are not heroes. To treat them as such is irresponsible. Some years ago, a student from my school tried to rob a gas station. The clerk fired three shots with the gun under the counter, hitting the kid twice and killing him dead on the spot. When asked if I felt any sadness, I lied to my students -- I told them no. Actually, I did -- I felt it was a terrible waste of the bullet that missed him. Do I judge these boys nearly that harshly? No , I do not. They did not deserve to die (I think the young man in the story above did). But I do not believe they should be treated as celebrated -- indeed, they should be held up as examples to be rejected by the community. Maybe when that starts to happen, we will begin to see reductions in crime, violence, and illegitimacy in your neighborhood.

17 Ok... all i have to say is that YOUR A FUCKING ASSWHOLE, YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW THESE BOYS!!! keep your damn thought to yourself!!

18 And you, Kayla, appear to be ignorant and semi-literate. If you could read at grade level, you would see that my point is more about your community and its messed-up values as it is about these boys. If you didn't get that out of my original post, you would have gotten it out of the comment thread. And since you don't know me, keep YOUR damn thoughts to yourself. By the way -- the word "asshole" does not have a "w" in it.

19 well I THINK YOU SHOULD GET UR ASS KICK FOR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND I THINK YOU SHOULD KEEP UR SHIT OT URSELF NO ONE GIVES FUCK ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND IF I EVER SEE YOU BELIEVE I WILL KILL YOU B/C I KNEW ALL OF THEM VERY WELL BESIDES ONE AND THAT WAS DUSTIN SO FUCK YOU

20 You have crossed the line "Rhymes with Right." Or "teacher." I'm not sugar coating anything anymore. Here is the real deal. So you knew of students just like these four boys. HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEM? You can't. Leave them be. It's none of your God Damned business. You don't have to butt your self into shit just so you can fucking amke it about your damn self. You know what, for this, I hope you go through the same exact thing with one of the most important people in your damned life as we all fucking did. I hope to God it does. Infact, I'm going to pray that it does. THAT IS WHAT YOU FUCKING NEED. Experience it your fucking self. Then try and take someone saying that about your loved one. MAYBE you'll get it through your thick head. Or maybe you'll be the one who dies in a random car accident because of some other drunk driver. Maybe you'll be in the wrong place at the wrong time JUST LIKE THEY WERE. No one deserves to die. Not even you. But, you do deserve to carry on a guilt for the rest of the life you have left. You deserve to be fuckin pushed around and disrespected. You don't deserve any respect after you fucking disrespect the dead?! Your so ignorant!!!! Damn. Do you not have any feelings at all? THIS MATTER DOES NOT CONCERN YOU. Your intitled to your own damn opinion. But no publicly. Stay the fuck out of their business and worry about your own damn problems. Did you get everything you wanted as a kid? Were you rich and handed everything? Could you do and say whatever you wanted and there would always be someone there to get you out of it? Or were you the lil sorry ass girl who has grown up to be so bitter because everyone made fun of her and stated their opinions so you have to get someone back? Thats how your coming off to me. Your a very insecure bitch, you know that. Focus on your own damn problems, not everyone elses across the fucking world. Oh yeah... God, its me, Paige. So, you know about Rhymes With Right. I think the teacher talking all that talk needs to experience a tragedy herself, first hand. Could you please have something terrible happen to someone she is really close to? I think it would do her a lot of good.

21 Come and get me, Ms. Hearrell -- just remember that Texas is a concealed carry state and that using a gun to repel an assault on one's person won't even result in an arrest, much less a conviction. And that is not a threat -- that is just an observation about the way we do things down here. By the way -- you and your little girlfriends here are doing a fine job of honoring the memories of your friends and showing off what constitutes "community values" in your neck of the woods.

22 Actually, I am a "he", Paige. If you had bothered to look, my name is Greg. And by the way, I've shown no disrespect for the dead. I've said they should not be honored as heroes, not that they deserved to die. I've said that because of the manner of their deaths they should be seen as examples of what not to become. Oh, and that's a great little bit of blasphemy there at the end of your post -- clearly you have no relationship with the God of the Bible, for if you did you would know that we are to bless those who curse us, not beg God to curse those we disagree with. Now why don't you run along to the street-corner and get back to work, you foul-mouthed little gutter-snipe.

23 Okay, I'm going to take the ininative and be the bigger man here. Your a teacher. You've been through college. So your an adult. You atleast in your 20's. Your argueing with teenagers!!! Most of which are 16!!! Wow, your not showing yourself much maturity. You should be the bigger man. But, I beat you to it, sucka. THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY MATTERS IN THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT BETWEEN ALL OF US WHO DID KNOW THEM AND WERE FRIENDS WITH THEM AND YOU IS THAT WE ARE STILL, EVEN AFTER THEY PAST, PROVEING OURSELVES GOOD FRIENDS. YA KNOW, THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ME FEEL PRETTY DAMN GOOD ACTUALLY. WE ARE STANDING UP AND SPEAKING OUT FOR THEM. WE ARE STILL STANDING BESIDE THEM. THEY AER STILL OUR FRIENDS. MAYBE THEY AREN'T HERE IN PERSON, BUT THEY ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN OUR HEARTS. NO MATTER WHAT YOU FUCKS SAY. Oh, I don't know about anyone else. But, they ARE hereos to me. Everything happens for a reason, and because of them, so many people have discovered how precious life really is and how much to often they take people for granted. We've all realized that your best friend may not be back to school the following Monday because of an unexpected accident. Or any day for that matter. Ya know, it really sucks that it had to be them... But, because of them everyone has been more cautious about what they are doing. I'm not saying I'm happy this happened. No way. But, I'm glad there was good that came out of it. We all learned something that day. Something we will never forget. In my heart and mind, they are hereos. Our hereos.

24 Actually, Paige, try 40s. And why am I arguing with you? because I have enough respect for teenagers to believe it is a worthwhile and important thing to do. Because I spend my days surrounded by kids your age, I know that you are capable of rational thought and moral reasoning. And if I had to (metaphorically speaking) bop you girls over your noses with a rolled up newspaper to get you to drop the crazy talk, so be it. And so that meant that I had to push you past the emotion and into the intellect -- so you didn't beat me, you joined me, which means we have finally met as equals. Welcome to a little bit of adulthood, my dear. If you notice, I'm not suggesting any of your friends was evil, or that they deserved to die. They didn't -- and I've said that in comments above the ones tonight. Their deaths SUCK, and offend me deeply, because kids are not supposed to die. But they do, and we are all left to make sense out of it. We are all left to learn from it, in cases like this one -- and it sounds like maybe you and some of your friends have. But you finally acknowledged a big part of my point without realizing it -- if they are role models, then they are negative role models of what not to do and how not to make decisions. Any good that comes out of their death is good that comes from NOT following their examples. Do you not see where we are saying very much the same thing? The problem with celebrating these boys as heroes is that it leads to minimizing their wrong decisions and the fact that wrong choices led to their deaths. Several years ago a kid from my neighborhood died when he ran his car into a ditch while trying to outrun the cops going 90 MPH. Lat fall a former student died in what was essentially a gang fight. I mourned them both as kids with potentially who would never meet it -- and as kids of whom I was particularly fond (Adam, the second boy, was 18, recently married to another former student, and the father of a new baby). Neither boy "deserved" to die -- but they didn't deserve to be whitewashed and canonized as if their wrong actions were irrelevant to their deaths. And so I say to you, as I have been saying this whole thread -- mourn them, miss them, love them in your heart forever. Just don't make them out to be innocents gone too soon and positive models of what other young people should strive to be, for the choices that led to their unfortunate deaths necessarily serve to define them. You want examples of that? Benedict Arnold was a great general and a hero of the American Rebolution, until he decided to sell-out the 13 colonies -- and that decision will ever define him. So, too, will Judas' betraying kiss define him -- even though he was the disciple who was trusted by Jesus to control the money they all shared in common. Their wrong choices and theconsequences define them. Can we agree on that?

25 Go play in traffic you fucking moron rhymes

26 Your a fucking moron rhymes, go play in traffic

27 Proxima -- I have the wisdom not to play in traffic, or in stolen vehicles.

28 I can somewhat see what you are trying to say. But, the way you have worded it in your articles above bring everyone to understand it in a comlpetely different way than you do. Will you consider that? And no, they weren't innocent. Not one of them. But, I guess we don't look at their guilty roles in the whole situation because of the drver's mistakes. I do have to say that I have come to realize, most of us are focusing on Jeremy, the driver. We are focusing on all the wrong he did because he was simply the only one that survived, the fact that he was the one driving and lost control, and the fucked up things he did that night. Trying to put one of the boys in the drivers seat. Trying to get away and not call for help so it would look like he wasn't involved. The four boys were the victims of those selfish and inconsiderate ways. That is all we are focusing on. We do though, need to look at the fact that it was indeed their choice to get into that car, and take it into consideration. Every one of those boys knew the possiblities of drinking and driving. We all do. They took their chances, just as may of us do today. I know that if we could talk to them, they would take their part of the blame. Atleast, I know Dustin would. Each one of them knew what they were doing was wrong and was very risky. The did have a choice in that matter. They made the wrong choice, and instead of it being temporary and tmie taking it away, it's permanent. They didn't mean for it to happen. I hope that Jeremy really did loose control and didn't purposely wreck the car. He didn't mean for it to happen. I think that we all just need to leave them at reat and quit argueing about it. I know I argued somewhat, so don't call me hypocrite. I am now realizing. I mean there is nothing we can do to change what has happened. What is done is done. I believe in God. He is the most importnat thing to me. All I know is, they are in a better place. It was their time to go. I believe it was in God's plans. Not to kill them, but to bring them home. With that said and done, can we all just quit argueing about this. Let the four boys Rest In Peace. Quit with all the negative feelings and words, it isn't helping. I know I said things. I apologize. Rest In Peace *Dustin Shane Van Hoose* December 14, 1989 - October 30, 2005 *Joey Bruce* *Joshua Flemming* *Ian Bailey*

29 While I don't agree with you in all that you said, please know that I respect all of what you said in that last comment. It shows the better angels of your nature, and your reach towards true maturity. Well done, dear girl, and know that you (and even the ruder folks above) have always had my deepest sympathies in your time of loss. I have no qualms about saying that all of you were innocent victims. In truth, my criticism was less directed at these boys than at an attitude that is all too prevalent in our society. May your friends rest in peace, and may their friends be comforted.

30 Thank you I appreciate it. Now, to anyone else who comes across this. Do Joey, Josh, Ian, and Dusitn a favor. Just let them rest in peace.

31 OK let me start by saying, i know what you mean. No They shouldn't be labeled as heros because they were kids, they should be labeled as heros because of who they were at heart. Good People Fuck Up Too. There is no point for anyone else to get on here and cuss "Greg" out. It's Dumb. We're all getting worked up for nothing...just don't read this dumb shit anymore. He has stated his opinions and thats just grand. Theres noway we can change it, and by "fighting" with this "Teacher" will do nothing positive for your greiving process. Move elsewhere and forget about this dumbass site. If we all tried to protect the ones we lost then we would never truly be happy. Kiddos it comes down to this, cussing at him...praying that he feels the same pain we do...tring to say his opinion is wrong....Its all pointless and a complete waste of time. This guy will never truly know anything about who these kids were. Never smile with them. Never tell crazy ass jokes with them. Never get into trouble with them. Never talk to them. Never know what kind of hell some of them went through at home. Never feel guilty for his death when he shouldn't. Never have nightmares about the inccident. Never have to see the faces of loved ones crying as they stare down at the cold, lifeless, broken, body that barely resembled the real sweetheart you once held. No, he will never know any of those things...so theres no point in trying to teach the teacher. All i can say to reverse the damage thats already been done is to tell you guys to stay strong and keep moving on with life...live life to the fullest, but be cautious, live it as if you were living to make up for the life they will never get to finish. Love you guys so much. Clearly you are amazing friends... As For You "Greg" Start A Journal Sweetie, Really, What Kind Of "Teacher" Deals With Students Mourning All The Time And Claims To Know What They Are Going Through Would Write Such Strong Opinions? You Had To At Least Have An Idea That It Would Offend People Mouring. I Mean, Would You Post This On The Bullitin Board At Your School For All Your Kids In Griveing To Read? Use That Collage Leveled Brain Of Your To Think About Others. Why In Gods Name Would You Call Teenagers "Punks" Or Comment That They Should Be On A Corner Working Is Above And Beyond A Dumbass Move On Your Part. Clearly You Need To Take A Break From Working To Help Kids And Find A Better Job...Like A Police Officer. Then Let Me Know How You Feel When You Have To Tell The Familys That Someone Died. Tell Them How You Really Feel About Them. Hopefully You Dont Get The Reaction From People You Deserve.... Killing An Officer Is Highly Frowned Apon These Days Darlin... Ok, Now I'm Back To Being The Brittany I Was At The Beginning, Forget Him Lovelys And Stay Strong...

32 Well, Little Miss Bitchy (that is your My Space name, I see), might I suggest that you learn a little bit of respect for your elders and not presume to give us career or other counseling. Develop some basic literacy skills first, you spoiled child. And as i have said above, my goal WAS to offend people -- that is usually the response you get when you tell the unvarnished truth. But what people ought to be offended at is turning a bunch of kids who died breaking the law into a heroes and role-models, not my criticism of those who make that mistake. As for my more pointed comments, they were directed at what I perceive as the level of morality of the person involved, bivven the insults, profanity, and threats directed my way. You don't like it -- don't talk to me that way. I'm usually a much more accommodating host. Want an example? Notice the different way I engaged Paige when she decided to apply a little bit of intellect rather than the initial insulting barrage. I respect her -- but your response merits no respect at all.

33 AAAlllllrrrriiight People. Lets drop it. No matter what we say or how much we agrue it's not going to change the fact that they are dead and are never coming back. They made a mistake, we all do. We just need to accept the facts. Lets respect eachother's opinions and be done with this. You may not agree, but everyone is intitled to thier own opinion. Now can we all agree to drop this? I mean come on. Its been exactly 8 months and a day. Let's just drop this arguement.

34 *nods in agreement*