How on earth do you mess this up?

Here's the headline on an article in today's Houston Chrnicle.

A first look at Roberts in action on abortion

He appears to favor the power of the state in a case involving parental consent

Every link to the article also talked about "parental consent".

The opening sentence of the story tells a different story.

New Chief Justice John Roberts appeared to side with New Hampshire as the U.S. Supreme Court debated Wednesday whether to salvage the state's law requiring girls to notify a parent before getting an abortion.

In other words, the first sentence of the article directly contadicts the headline.

Is it incompetence, or is it bias?

Posted by: Greg at 11:29 PM | Comments (2) | Add Comment
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Kenneth Lee Boyd killed his estranged wife and father-in-law in 1988 is scheduled to be the next condemned murder executed in the United States on Friday -- the 1000th since the resumption of the capital punishment in 1977.

In a recent interview, he made the following statement -- one with which I fully agree.

"I feel like I should be in prison for the rest of my life."

As a death penalty supporter, I have to agree.

And the rest of your life ends at 2:00 a.m. on Friday, December 2, 2005 -- bringing justice for those you murdered 17 years ago.

UPDATE: He got what he deserved this morning, December 2, 2005.

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Why are time and money being spent to study this issue? What is the redeeming social value of research on geriatric prostitutes?

Prostitutes as old as 70 continue to work in rural Australia, pushed out of the cities due to strong competition from younger and more attractive sex workers, the author of a study says.

* * *
The research, by John Scott of the University of New England, examined prostitution in rural areas of New South Wales state. He found the sex industry has flourished in rural towns, with many prostitutes making regular visits.
"I've likened some of them to travelling musicians, in that some of them might be based in metropolitan centres and they go out and travel -- they tour the bush," Scott told Reuters.

[Insert Your Joke Here]

He said a sex worker might pass through a country town every couple of months, but would advertise in advance and book up appointments. He said sex workers in rural areas tended to be older, and provide more companionship than city sex workers.

"In a business that is based on looks and age a lot of the time, it became increasingly hard for workers as they progressed in age," Scott said.

Hookers who are old enough to qualify for Social Security? Yeah, it might be increasingly hard for them, but I think it would make customers increasingly soft. Maybe there is a reason all they want is cuddling and conversation

Posted by: Greg at 10:27 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Why are time and money being spent to study this issue? What is the redeeming social value of research on geriatric prostitutes?

Prostitutes as old as 70 continue to work in rural Australia, pushed out of the cities due to strong competition from younger and more attractive sex workers, the author of a study says.

* * *
The research, by John Scott of the University of New England, examined prostitution in rural areas of New South Wales state. He found the sex industry has flourished in rural towns, with many prostitutes making regular visits.
"I've likened some of them to travelling musicians, in that some of them might be based in metropolitan centres and they go out and travel -- they tour the bush," Scott told Reuters.

[Insert Your Joke Here]

He said a sex worker might pass through a country town every couple of months, but would advertise in advance and book up appointments. He said sex workers in rural areas tended to be older, and provide more companionship than city sex workers.

"In a business that is based on looks and age a lot of the time, it became increasingly hard for workers as they progressed in age," Scott said.

Hookers who are old enough to qualify for Social Security? Yeah, it might be increasingly hard for them, but I think it would make customers increasingly soft. Maybe there is a reason all they want is cuddling and conversation

Posted by: Greg at 10:27 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Are all men potential molesters of kids? Apparently so, according to Qantas and Air New Zealand.

Two airlines "down under" are under fire after acknowledging their policy of not allowing an unaccompanied child passenger to sit next to a man.

The policy emerged when a New Zealand man said he was asked by airline staff to move because an unaccompanied minor had been assigned the seat next to him.

Mark Worsley was told to swap seats with a woman sitting nearby, who then moved into the seat next to the boy, about eight years old, for the 80-minute flight.

"I was pretty shocked -- I think most people would be," the 37-year-old shipping manager and father of two said Tuesday.

"I complied straight away and moved seats. But as I sat on the plane during the flight I got more and more angry about it."

Part of the problem, Worsley said, was that the plane was full. When the flight attendant arranged the seat swap, "certainly there was enough disruption that people in the immediate vicinity would have heard what was going on. I felt totally embarrassed."

He had later confronted the airline staff, who confirmed the company policy.

Now given what we know about child abuse, especially from certain recent cases, it can come from either sex. To demand a man move simply because of his gender is absurd. Not only that, it is intolerable.

Unfortunately, some don’t see it that way – and they are in charge of enforcing laws against sex discrimination.

The airlines did win support from one quarter. Children's Commissioner Cindy Kiro, a government appointee, commended Qantas and Air New Zealand for their efforts to keep child passengers safe.

Kiro said she doubted the policy was meant as a slur against men.

It may not have been meant as a slur against men, but it certainly was a slur against men. This ding-dong needs to be pursued out of office by a mob lobbing rotten vegetables.

Oh, yeah -- and the authorities down-under need to correct thsi offense against the dignity of men.

Posted by: Greg at 01:31 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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One of my high school clasmates is married to a neo-natal specialist who fights (with great success) to save children born prematurely, as early as the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy. A few blocks down the street is the office of one of the most aggressive abortionists in the United States, where a so-called healer takes the lives of babies into to the eighth month of pregnancy. I've long been struck by the conflict between their work.

Accoding to a report in Great Britain, at leaset 50 babies a year are born alive following abortion.

A GOVERNMENT agency is launching an inquiry into doctorsÂ’ reports that up to 50 babies a year are born alive after botched National Health Service abortions.

The investigation, by the Confidential Enquiry into Maternal and Child Health (CEMACH), comes amid growing unease among clinicians over a legal ambiguity that could see them being charged with infanticide.

The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, which regulates methods of abortion, has also mounted its own investigation.

Its guidelines say that babies aborted after more than 21 weeks and six days of gestation should have their hearts stopped by an injection of potassium chloride before being delivered. In practice, few doctors are willing or able to perform the delicate procedure.

For the abortion of younger foetuses, labour is induced by drugs in the expectation that the infant will not survive the birth process. Guidelines say that doctors should ensure that the drugs they use prevent such babies being alive at birth.

In practice, according to Stuart Campbell, former professor of obstetrics and gynaecology at St GeorgeÂ’s hospital, London, a number do survive.

“They can be born breathing and crying at 19 weeks’ gestation,” he said. “I am not anti-abortion, but as far as I am concerned this is sub-standard medicine.”

The number of terminations carried out in the 18th week of pregnancy or later has risen from 5,166 in 1994 to 7,432 last year. Prenatal diagnosis for conditions such as DownÂ’s syndrome is increasing and foetuses with the condition are routinely aborted, even though many might be capable of leading fulfilling lives. In the past decade, doctorsÂ’ skill in saving the lives of premature babies has improved radically: at least 70%-80% of babies in their 23rd or 24th week of gestation now survive long-term.

Abortion on demand is allowed in Britain up to 24 weeks — more than halfway through a normal pregnancy and the highest legal limit for such terminations in Europe. France and Germany permit “social” abortions only up to the 10th and 12th weeks respectively.

Doctors are increasingly uneasy about aborting babies who could be born alive. “If viability is the basis on which they set the 24-week limit for abortion, then the simplest answer is to change the law and reduce the upper limit to 18 weeks,” said Campbell, who last year published a book showing images of foetuses’ facial expressions and “walking” movements taken with a form of 3-D ultrasound.

The Department of Health was alerted three months ago to the issue of babies surviving failed terminations. In August clinicians in Manchester published an analysis of 31 such babies born in northwest England between 1996 and 2001.

“If a baby is born alive following a failed abortion and then dies (because of lack of care), you could potentially be charged with murder,” said Shantala Vadeyar, a consultant obstetrician at South Manchester University Hospitals NHS Trust, who led the study.

Ultimately, it comes down to a question of human life. Why does any society countenance the killing of viable children? And if the most vulnerable among us are declared without worth and subject to extermination while still in the womb, what rights do they have if they manage to escape their intended fates and take a first breath? Does the fact that these children are now unquestionably alive imbue them with full human rights?

Or is a woman seeking an abortion entitled to a dead baby?
In short, when are we, as a society, going to recognize the critical disconnect between our medical abilty to save babies born at increasingly early stages of pregnancy and the legal willingness to take the lives of such infants?

Posted by: Greg at 11:26 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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I've never been a fan of "blue laws", which restrict business activities on certain days with an ostensibly religious significance.

Originally implemented to force folks to keep the Christian Sabbath, they interfere with the legitimate rights of those of other faiths (and no faith at all) to engage in commerce as they see fit -- and provides no equivalent protection for those whose Sabbath and other holy days fall outside of those of the Christian religion.

More to the point, they needlessly restrict the economic activities of Americans on their non-work days. After all, who is harmed if I purchase a car on Sunday?

Massachusetts has done away with most of its blue laws -- but among the exceptions is the one requiring that stores close on Christmas, New Years Day, and Thanksgiving.

One grocer, Whole Foods (which specializes in natural and organic foods), planned to open its 14 Massachusetts stores for Thanksgiving. A compettitor, Shaws Supermarkets, with over 200 Massachusetts stores, complained to the state and have brought the jackboot of the state authority down upon Whole Foods to force the closure of their much smaller competitor, which had sought and received permits from local authorities to open on the holiday.

What was the basis of thier complaint?

"We believe that allowing Whole Foods to open on Thanksgiving Day will create an unlevel playing field for all other retail grocers," Shaw's legal department wrote to Reilly on Nov. 4. "Besides disadvantaging competitors, a Whole Foods opening would harm consumers, due to lack of choice in the marketplace for consumers to shop and compare prices for the best deal."

I have two reactions.

1) What would have kept you from seeking a similar exemption?

2) Do you really believe that it is a greater harm to consumers to have a single choice on Thanksgiving than for them to have zero choices?

Not, of course, that Massachusetts consumers will be without recourse on Thanksgiving. Gas stations and convenience stores will be open under an exemption written into the blue law. I wonder if Shaws in Massachusetts has done like Krogers has here in Texas and Albertsons has done in other parts of the country -- opened up convenience stores and gas stations on their lots, which would allow them to sell all those Thanksgiving needs without competition from Whole Foods. And, of course, whatever convenience store or gas station they go to will have a smaller selection of goods at much higher prices than they would have paid at Whole Foods -- certainly a wonderful benefit of this state "protection" of the consumer. Not to mention that the available selections will not include the preferred organic and natural food selections of Whole Foods shoppers.

The state is offering a different justification for its actions.

A letter to Whole Foods from Reilly's fair labor and business practices division said, "Generally, the performance of work on legal holidays is prohibited unless permitted by a statutory exemption." The letter noted Reilly has the power to bring criminal charges against anyone who violates the state's blue laws.

Nick Messuri, chief of Reilly's business and labor protection bureau, said the blue laws sound archaic, but they protect workers from pressure to give up their holidays.

Whole Foods responds that no worker would have been forced to work on the holiday, and that they would have received double-time for the holiday shift -- a bargain I certainly would be glad to make (and generally did when I worked for an hourly wage).

But everyone here is protected by state regulation. Consumers are protected from being able to buy the items they need at the store they want. Workers are protected from choosing to make twice their hourly wage while still having plenty of time to mark the holiday. And Shaws is protected from their tiny, specialized competitor earning a little bit of good will from the public.

Thank God for the jackboot power of government protecting us from the invisible hand of capitalism!

LINKING TO OPEN TRACKBACK: Stop The ACLU

Posted by: Greg at 05:45 AM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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I pass the construction site for the new Bayport terminal on my way home from work every day It is a couple of miles from my house.

Yesterday, I saw a bunch of squad cars and some television trucks at what is nothing more than an industrial construction site.

Seems they made a surprise discovery.

Authorities on Monday were combing through an area near the new Bayport terminal after a work crew discovered a human skull.

Pasadena police and officials with the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, including an anthropologist, were called to the site in the 12800 block of Port Road about 9:45 a.m.

After searching the area for other clues, police also found a leg bone and a shirt, Pasadena police spokesman Vance Mitchell said.

"We are not sure if it is a man or a woman," Mitchell said of the skull found in a field near where a crew was surveying.

Additional testing will determine if the skull and the leg bone were from the same person.

Mitchell said it appears the skull had been in the field for some time because there was no flesh on it.

This may slow down the construction for a bit.

I'll let you know if it is anything really exciting.

Posted by: Greg at 12:02 AM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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It has only been about a week since Sony was caught installing system damaging software on computers without disclosing the nature of the program. Now it appears that they have left the door open to hackers, too.

A computer security firm said on Thursday it had discovered the first virus that uses music publisher Sony BMG's controversial CD copy-protection software to hide on PCs and wreak havoc.

Under a subject line containing the words "Photo approval," a hacker has mass-mailed the so-called Stinx-E trojan virus to British email addresses, said British anti-virus firm Sophos.

When recipients click on an attachment, they install malware, which may tear down a computer's firewall and give hackers access to a PC. The malware hides by using Sony BMG software that is also hidden -- the software would have been installed on a computer when consumers played Sony's copy-protected music CDs.

"This leaves Sony in a real tangle. It was already getting bad press about its copy-protection software, and this new hack exploit will make it even worse," said Sophos's Graham Cluley.

Later on Thursday, security software firm Symantec Corp. also discovered the first trojans to abuse the security flaw in Sony BMG's copy-protection software. A trojan is a program that appears desirable but actually contains something harmful.

Time for the law to take on this abusive business practice – and for civil courts to award serious damages.

And fortunately, the first civil suit has already been filed.

Sony BMG is facing three lawsuits over its controversial anti-piracy software.

Revealed in late October by Windows expert Mark Russinovich, the software copy protection system hides using virus-like techniques.

One class-action lawsuit has already been filed in California and another is expected in New York.

Digital rights group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), is also gathering information from users to see if a case can be brought.

Combined with the investigations by several governments, Sony may be in for a serious financial hit from which it may never recover.

Posted by: Greg at 12:05 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Jack Kelly of Irish Pennants points out this "minor" error by CNN's Carol Lin.

Hard to say because it's been 11 days since two African- American teenagers were killed, electrocuted during a police chase, which prompted all of this.

Uh -- they weren't American, Carol.

Posted by: Greg at 11:46 AM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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I could have told you this, and saved you the cost of the study.

Stanford University researchers have determined humor is processed differently in the brains of men and women, and women get more enjoyment from it.

In a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, psychiatrist Dr. Allan Reiss, who led the study, explained magnetic resonance imaging was used to detect blood rushing into active areas of the brain. The heads of each of the 20 volunteers were carefully restrained so as not to jiggle and blur the image if the person laughed, the San Jose (Calif.) Mercury News reported.

The study found that when looking at funny cartoons, women activated the language parts of their brains more than men did. Their reward centers also lit up more intensely, possibly because they didn`t expect the cartoons to be as funny as the men did, and so felt more intense pleasure when they got the punch line.

Reiss said if women react more intensely to funny things, 'could that also imply that they process negative stimuli, stressful stimuli, in a different way? It`s definitely worth following up.'

Ask any guy who has been married for more than two or three weeks if men and women view humor (or anything else) differently. We learn that one the hard way, as jokes fall flat and the wives attempt to get us to watch reruns of Britcoms on PBS.

But then again, why should we be surprised that academic scientists spend wads of cash studying the obvious?

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I could have told you this, and saved you the cost of the study.

Stanford University researchers have determined humor is processed differently in the brains of men and women, and women get more enjoyment from it.

In a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, psychiatrist Dr. Allan Reiss, who led the study, explained magnetic resonance imaging was used to detect blood rushing into active areas of the brain. The heads of each of the 20 volunteers were carefully restrained so as not to jiggle and blur the image if the person laughed, the San Jose (Calif.) Mercury News reported.

The study found that when looking at funny cartoons, women activated the language parts of their brains more than men did. Their reward centers also lit up more intensely, possibly because they didn`t expect the cartoons to be as funny as the men did, and so felt more intense pleasure when they got the punch line.

Reiss said if women react more intensely to funny things, 'could that also imply that they process negative stimuli, stressful stimuli, in a different way? It`s definitely worth following up.'

Ask any guy who has been married for more than two or three weeks if men and women view humor (or anything else) differently. We learn that one the hard way, as jokes fall flat and the wives attempt to get us to watch reruns of Britcoms on PBS.

But then again, why should we be surprised that academic scientists spend wads of cash studying the obvious?

Posted by: Greg at 01:40 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Ian Robinson of the Calgary Sun offers this tip to all those gangbangers who think that its "cool" to hold their guns sideways while shooting, lust like they do in the movies.

NOTE TO MORONS: The front and back sights of a weapon are on the top of the barrel so that you can use them to hit the target. You hold the thing sideways, and you don't know what you're going to hit. Plus the spent cartridge ejects from the weapon and flies backwards. You hold it properly, it goes over your right shoulder. Do it the way they do it in the movies, and it catches you in the centre of your forehead.

Can you say ouch, moron?

I'd encourage you to read the whole article, which delves into such issues as gun ownership, regulation of shooting ranges, and the social acceptability of owning a gun in the People's Republic of Kanuckistan. It makes for a great laugh -- and for some serious thought.

Posted by: Greg at 11:28 AM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
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I started reading Dear Abby as a kid, and have long continued to do so for entertainemnt value.

This letter, though, is much more important.

It praises those men and women who work to save the lives of those wounded in the service of our country -- and is from a person who knows.

Dear Abby:

Q: I was a soldier serving in Iraq. Last April, I was in a vehicular accident while part of a military convoy and was medevaced to the nearest medical treatment facility.

I didn't mind sharing the trauma room with the Marine who had arrived there before me. He had been shot three times in the face. While I was in the room with this brave Marine, the trauma crew fought valiantly to save his life. He flat-lined seven times in just the short period after I got there. Finally, the doctor told them it was over, and they covered him up. I never knew his name. I lay on my litter while they started to work on my arm, which had been pinned under the truck during my accident and crushed, crying silently for the life that had been lost.

I'm writing this to you, Abby, to let that Marine's parents and friends know how hard the doctors and crew fought to save his life. Besides the medical crew, I'm the only one who knows. He wasn't just a face or a name on a memorial to them. He was a life, and many people tried hard to keep him alive. If he had been my child, I would want to know.

ANOTHER SOLIDER, Clarksville, Tenn.

Dear Soldier:

A: Thank you for your letter and for taking the time to share the last moments of life of that Marine. I'm sure your feelings are shared by all of the parents who have lost sons and daughters in this war, as well as the parents of those whose lives are on the line every day they serve on active duty.

I, too, thank you for sharing this, and for your efforts on behalf of freedom.

Posted by: Greg at 03:07 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Here is a case of an HMO simply abusing the process to the complete disregard of the health of the patient.

Little Jack Zembsch suffers from a very rare form of dwarfism that will likely kill him without treatment available only one place in the country.

But the doctor isn't in network.

So the family HMO, Health Net, has taken a series of steps that amount to a directive to let Jack die.

"You just keep thinking that you are going to wake up and it is all resolved,'' he says. "It is so clearly the right path for Jack. I keep thinking I am going to get the letter from some guy saying, 'Sorry, he fell through the cracks. We will get this done.' ''

That isn't going to happen. It didn't happen when the Zembschs' primary-care physician, Dr. Jane Hunter at Alta Bates Medical Center in Berkeley, wrote a note to Health Net saying "it is imperative'' that Jack see Mackenzie.

It didn't happen when Health Net sent Jack to the highly regarded UCSF medical center to be treated by Dr. Mohammad Diab, a surgeon who is in charge of pediatric orthopedics. Diab told the family he essentially had no experience with the surgery Jack needs and wrote to Health Net that Jack should see Mackenzie immediately.

"The door is closing, if not closed,'' Diab wrote.

It doesn't get any plainer than that. Jack needs an operation. He will die without it.

"I thought it was a no-brainer at that point,'' says Arnold Levinson, a San Francisco health care insurance attorney.

Apparently not. In all there were four appeals. Some were filed twice. In every case, Health Net took the entire 30 days allowed by law to respond, then came up with another rejection or roadblock. Finally, on Oct. 12, Health Net ruled that Jack should go back to Diab.

So everyone, including the doctor that Health Net wants treating Jack, are on the same page -- only Dr. Mackenzie has the expertise to treat Jack. But Health Net does not care. Better one child should die for the good of the shareholders. than the bottom line be impacted negatively.

But a lawsuit is coming -- Monday.

As the spouse of a chronically ill patient, I hope that Health Net gets crushed.

Posted by: Greg at 12:52 PM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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I can’t help but sympathize to this response to the lowlifes who destroy property with their “artwork”.

Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman has suggested that those who deface freeways with graffiti should have their thumbs cut off on television.

Goodman, appearing Wednesday on the ``Nevada Newsmakers'' television show, said, ``In the old days in France, they had beheading of people who commit heinous crimes.

``You know, we have a beautiful highway landscaping redevelopment in our downtown. We have desert tortoises and beautiful paintings of flora and fauna. These punks come along and deface it.

``I'm saying maybe you put them on TV and cut off a thumb,'' the mayor added. ``That may be the right thing to do.''

And I must say I wouldnÂ’t mind seeing this restored in schools.

Goodman also suggested that whippings or canings should be brought back for children who get into trouble.

``I also believe in a little bit of corporal punishment going back to the days of yore, where examples have to be shown,'' Goodman said.

``I'm dead serious,'' said Goodman, adding, ``Some of these (children) don't learn. You have got to teach them a lesson, and this is coming from a criminal defense lawyer.''

One of my colleagues used to teach in Singapore. She tells me discipline was so much better thereÂ…

Posted by: Greg at 02:36 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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I tell these kids something like this could happen if they are sagging.

A man suspected of stealing discs from a video store was tripped up by his baggy pants, falling twice before police captured him, authorities said.
James Green, 30, of Detroit, took about a half-dozen DVDs on Sunday night, and initially made his getaway on a bicycle, police said.

Officers spotted him in an alley, and he abandoned the bike and ran, but his pants fell to his ankles and he tripped, Ferndale Detective Sgt. Patrick Jones told The Daily Tribune of Royal Oak. "Finally, he kicked off his pants and shoes" and then jumped a fence into the backyard of a house where he was captured, Jones said.

On Monday, Green pleaded guilty to resisting arrest and retail fraud and was ordered jailed for 30 days.

Maybe the old urban legend is correct – perhaps undercover cops did start this trend to make it easy to catch the criminals.

Posted by: Greg at 02:34 PM | No Comments | Add Comment
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I’ll concede that dead teenagers are usually a tragedy, and I have a certain amount of compassion for the families who lost children in this accident – but when they are dead because they wrecked the stolen car they were riding in, I find the outpouring of public grief to be unseemly. I’ll explain later.

In the two days since four teens died in a car crash, sadness blanketed Huber Heights. Children cried in their classrooms at Wayne High School, parents wept in their houses and on a rural road in western Clark County where the bodies of the victims were found, more tears were shed.

The sadness was palpable. Cars drove by on Old Troy Pike with the boys' names on their windows. A restaurant put a sign up front praying for them to Rest in Peace. And Monday night at a candlelight vigil on the high school's football field, the sobs of about 250 students filled the air as they held up candles and prayed. They had gathered there to remember their friends, and many of them hugged each other as they wept.

Ian Bailey, Joseph Bruce, Joshua Flemming and Dustin Van Hoose were killed when the stolen Ford Crown Victoria they were riding in hit two trees on Lake Road early Sunday . A fifth teen — possibly the driver — was taken to a hospital in Dayton on Sunday morning and questioned there by police. He remained in the hospital Monday night, in the custody of Montgomery County Children Services.

The car was stolen from Mozart Avenue in Huber Heights, where police found broken glass on the street, Officer Mark Bruns said.

Now the story goes on to stir up sympathy for the driver who survived and a sense of loss of these boys – none of whom was old enough to drive the car they stole. They all get presented as good kids – even though they were out well after curfew joyriding in a stolen car. I have no evidence of possible drug or alcohol use, but I won’t be surprised if it turns out that the boys were drunk or high – it would fit with what we do know from the article.

As you may have figured, this story doesn’t sit well with me. It takes me back in time to my seminary days, and another tragic accident involving teenagers. In that case, the girls had been drinking, and were driving too fast on a hilly road. They crossed the center line and hit another car, killing all four girls and the other driver. The local press made a big tragedy out of the deaths of the girls – and ignored the death of the father of three who was the only innocent victim. His son was one of my fellow seminarians. The lesson learned by the young people of the community? No matter how irresponsible the decisions, no matter how grave the consequences, you end up a tragic hero to your peers and the community at large.

Posted by: Greg at 01:57 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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I’ll concede that dead teenagers are usually a tragedy, and I have a certain amount of compassion for the families who lost children in this accident – but when they are dead because they wrecked the stolen car they were riding in, I find the outpouring of public grief to be unseemly. I’ll explain later.

In the two days since four teens died in a car crash, sadness blanketed Huber Heights. Children cried in their classrooms at Wayne High School, parents wept in their houses and on a rural road in western Clark County where the bodies of the victims were found, more tears were shed.

The sadness was palpable. Cars drove by on Old Troy Pike with the boys' names on their windows. A restaurant put a sign up front praying for them to Rest in Peace. And Monday night at a candlelight vigil on the high school's football field, the sobs of about 250 students filled the air as they held up candles and prayed. They had gathered there to remember their friends, and many of them hugged each other as they wept.

Ian Bailey, Joseph Bruce, Joshua Flemming and Dustin Van Hoose were killed when the stolen Ford Crown Victoria they were riding in hit two trees on Lake Road early Sunday . A fifth teen — possibly the driver — was taken to a hospital in Dayton on Sunday morning and questioned there by police. He remained in the hospital Monday night, in the custody of Montgomery County Children Services.

The car was stolen from Mozart Avenue in Huber Heights, where police found broken glass on the street, Officer Mark Bruns said.

Now the story goes on to stir up sympathy for the driver who survived and a sense of loss of these boys – none of whom was old enough to drive the car they stole. They all get presented as good kids – even though they were out well after curfew joyriding in a stolen car. I have no evidence of possible drug or alcohol use, but I won’t be surprised if it turns out that the boys were drunk or high – it would fit with what we do know from the article.

As you may have figured, this story doesn’t sit well with me. It takes me back in time to my seminary days, and another tragic accident involving teenagers. In that case, the girls had been drinking, and were driving too fast on a hilly road. They crossed the center line and hit another car, killing all four girls and the other driver. The local press made a big tragedy out of the deaths of the girls – and ignored the death of the father of three who was the only innocent victim. His son was one of my fellow seminarians. The lesson learned by the young people of the community? No matter how irresponsible the decisions, no matter how grave the consequences, you end up a tragic hero to your peers and the community at large.

Posted by: Greg at 01:57 PM | Comments (34) | Add Comment
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1 you a dumba.. , sure this kids were in the wrong for driving a stolen car, but in your estimationg everyone that makes a bad choice and dies has no room for sympathy. Do you realize if everyone paid the ultimate price for a bad decision there would be no one left including you........

Posted by: don at Fri Nov 4 09:32:28 2005 (cn7Im)

2 How dare you judge these boys that you do not know. Only ONE of them had been drinking, only ONE of them stole that car and went around after a footbal game picking up other kids. The truly sad thing is, is that the ONE who did these things is the ONE still alive. Those four boys were someones children, brother, grandchild and friend. The kids and adults that are mourning their passing have that right, how dare you judge them.

Posted by: teemu at Fri Nov 4 09:53:06 2005 (cBhyf)

3 I don't say they "deserved" to die -- I did not indicate that had no sympathy. I indicated that I found the presentation of these boys as tragic heroes to be unseemly. I don't question anyone's right to mourn. And teemu -- since you seem to have such a strong objection to my judging people (I'm not -- I'm judging their presentation of the boys as "only the good die young" heroes) -- how dare YOU judge ME. But then again, I guess hypocrisy is a strong suit on your part.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Nov 4 13:26:32 2005 (X/70j)

4 "Now the story goes on to stir up sympathy for the driver who survived and a sense of loss of these boys – none of whom was old enough to drive the car they stole. They all get presented as good kids – even though they were out well after curfew joyriding in a stolen car. I have no evidence of possible drug or alcohol use, but I won’t be surprised if it turns out that the boys were drunk or high – it would fit with what we do know from the article." Do you know who stole the car? Do you know if all of the boys were aware if the car was stolen? We don't and we're family. "Tragic Heroes?" What the hell is heroic about suddenly losing your child? Hero?? They aren't being porojected as heroes, the community has gathered in sympathy for loss of life at such a young age. My condolences to your experience during your seminary days, but what gives you the right to comment on something YOU don't know the facts about? Ian was my nephew, his mother is my sister, and you, Mr. Rhymes with right, are an ass. Seminary???

Posted by: Suzy at Tue Nov 8 12:00:29 2005 (cUSQ4)

5 i cant believe you can sit here and judge these four lost souls. they are family to everyone and if you ask any body they would sit here and tell you that they love each and every one of those kids. its not there fault. they didnt know that if they made that decision to get in the car that later that night they would reck it and die. i believe not one of them should of died or even got hurt but for you to sit here and tell me that they were all drunk and high is an outrage to alot of people. i think that you should really get your facts straight. i can say that these kids being killed taught us a lesson about our selfs and the decisions made by teenagers these days. but i really didnt believe the ones who everybody loved had to go out and die like that.

Posted by: drew at Sat Dec 17 09:47:26 2005 (5QTR3)

6 I don't judge their souls -- I judge their actions. As for the "It's not their fault" line, then whose fault is it? Were they forced into the car at gunpoint? I didn't think so -- they made a choice to engage in reckless and illegal activity that had, sadly , their deaths as a consequence. By the way, I don't tell anyone they were drunk and high -- I speculate that they might have been, but i do not in any way shape or form assert that such was the case. In fact, i make a specific point that we have NO evidence in the story to support the speculation. One of my former students was stabbed to death a couple of weeks ago. He went to a party where he was not invited, got into a fight, followed the folks he fought into their home to continue the fight, and was stabbed to death by one of them. For me to say that the young man made some bad choices that resulted in his death would be to make an accurate statement. For me to try to make a hero of him because he died as a result of those choices would be wrong, no matter how much I cared for him.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Dec 17 12:26:30 2005 (E4lNa)

7 you know what? two months later, it still feels like yesterday. i lost my brothers, my best friends that day. and you have the GALL to sit here and judge their actions, their souls, whatever. it doesnt matter whos fault it is. the point is two months ago we lost four amazing people to stupid mistakes. and two months later, we still mourn. so get off your damn high horse and be a human. for crying out loud. fault, actions, and motives dont matter now. think about this, and remember them. -cassie.(the head doctor)

Posted by: Cassie at Sun Jan 8 11:59:00 2006 (htes/)

8 I guess what gives me the "GALL" (see, I can use all caps, too) to judge the actions of these boys is that I have some moral values -- it seems to me that you don't. And actually, fault and actions do matter now -- expecially after folks in your community held these boys up to be some sort of tragic heroes. There was no heroism in what happened to them -- only tragedy. As a teacher, I've seen too many young people die after making a series of bad choices. I've seen them held forth as "only the good die young" heroes, despite the fact they were killed dealing drugs, robbing gas stations, driving drunk, or engaging in gang activity. Such kids are not heroes, and we do the young people of our communities not one ounce of good by memorializing them as such. Am I saddened by the deaths of thes kids? Yes, I am. Do I feel for you and have compassion for your loss? Yes, I do. If you wee here, I would take you in my arms and cry with you, as I did the Monday after Thanksgiving with a student whose brother (a former student) was killed in a fight with opposing gang members. There is nothing right or fair about the way your brother (or hers) died, and I would never tell you there is. Your brother and his friends did not deserve to die. But I also have compassion for all the kids who are not hearing the message that needs to be spread after deaths like these -- bad choices have bad consequences, and those who lose their lives under such circumstances are models of "what not to be," no matter what redeeming qualities they had. And if you are still too close to this deep personal loss to accept my words, I hope that one day you can understand what I am trying to say.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Jan 8 14:42:56 2006 (PGZ7z)

9 hey one of my friends were friends with all these kids which would make me friends so dnt say bad stuff bout them if it hurts her then it hurts me

Posted by: caras friend at Thu Feb 9 08:41:05 2006 (sjD9Q)

10 You need to learn to read more closely -- what I said was that they should not be celebrated, not that they were evil or should not be mourned. Their deaths are sad and tragic, and I know they cut very deeply, but they were the result of bad choices they made. Look at the comment above yours to understand what i am trying to communicate.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Feb 9 10:33:46 2006 (h9417)

11 Put yourself in the situation. Think of the person who means the most to you. Now, put them in of of the four boys' postitions. No disrespect. But, you cannot tell me or anyone else you would not show even the least bit of emotion. We are human. We all make mistakes. It is in our nature. And nobody, not even you, is perfect. Whether you want to believe it or not. Oh and they weren't the ones who wrecked the car. The driver did, obviously, so you cannot blame it on those four. But, don't diss the driver either because he has to live with killing four of his best friends for the rest of his life. That is enough punishment. I also take it very offensively that you say these kind of things. Everyone of those boys were loved and cared so much about by many many people. One of them happened to be one of my best friends I've ever had. I'm sure everyone else takes your bullshit offensively too. I don't see why they wouldn't. I know this is going to sound really screwed up, but I do not nuder any circumstances mean anything by it. I hope your (most important person in your life) dies in a horrible car accident the same way these boys did. Do you take that offensively at all? You can't even deny that you do. But, once again, it was an example, nothing was meant by it.. If your going to keep on saying this shit, your making yourself a bigger ass than what you already have. This here shows you are a very self-centered person who cares about himself/herself and hi/her self only. Your not right about everything. Obviously, you think you are. But, really your not. Now, if you want to say anything else to this, I'll be more than happy to listen cause I am a bitch and I will say whatever I want to no matter how screwed up it may be. So, dear. Try me. And don't pull a you-don't-know-me, because you deffinately didn't know any of those boys. Thank you and have a nice fucking day.

Posted by: Paige at Thu Jun 29 16:14:46 2006 (Ffvoi)

12 How can you call yourself a teacher. i mean with you being a teacher i though you would understand more then most people. I mean you as a teacher see how kids can make mistakes and clean up. or see thing because kids mess up its not always there fault. What about if something has a bad homelife. Or if the kids parents dont care. For the kids to be out that late the parent didnt care what there kids did. I mean yea its thier fault for gettin in the car, and all that. But i mean all kids make mistakes at one time. With each mistake people learn. I believe all things happen for a reason. But i kno what you are doin is wrong. I mean these boys should be remembered for there whole lifes not for the one thing they did wrong. I mean for you to call ur self a teacher makes me sick. how why And one of those boys was my friend. And you kno what dont believe everyhting you hear. Because this boy was in some trouble.. but he was gettin better.. he was a sweet kid. ALOT of people liked him. I just think these boys should rest in peace and be remembered for the good and the bad.. i mean have you done ur homework..did u even try to learn who these boys were... fuck no you didnt.. then you shouldnt post anything with out the facts.. What you are sayn is your opinion and you are aloud to have it. But you kno what u have said has hurt alot of people. i wanted to cry after all that reading. all of us have been threw enough. and with what you said doesnt help. in fact it brings all back and pisses me off.. i hope you are happie.. you have hurt alot of people....

Posted by: Myranda at Thu Jun 29 16:30:54 2006 (eXQVK)

13 Oka, Paige is very correct. And so are all these other people. I believe there is a God. You may not. I really don't give two shits about what you think right now. God forgives each mistake a person makes if you follow his footsteps. One of these boys was among the greatest guys every. I'm sure they all were. I'm pointing out one in particular. He was a very great friend of mine.He used to live in my old city and then when I moved, he returned to the same city i moved to also. They didn't deserve to die, whether their actions were wrong or not. Do you have no soul? How dare you say those God-awful things about these boys. I know, they would have grown up to be amazing young men. You need to fuck off and grow a heart. As what Paige said before, I also am a bitch at heart and will tell you what it is. These boys deserve gratification for the things they have accomplished. I can't get over the fact how someone that probably didn't even know these boys at all can come off saying such hurtful things. One day, someone will realize that it was you that wrote this and you will be faced with horrible tribulations. You will, get what you deserve for writing this. And making it public. I guess I will end here. By the way, Fuck Off And Die

Posted by: Lenia at Thu Jun 29 16:32:27 2006 (Rpzfx)

14 Oh by the way Get bent you sorry so-called sick ass "teacher"

Posted by: Lenia at Thu Jun 29 16:34:59 2006 (Rpzfx)

15 Listen, you little punk, I don't give a shit that you are offended. In fact, your expressed desire that the most important person in my life die in such an accident indicates that you are a screwed-up little child with no moral values who will no doubt be making equally irresponsible choices soon -- probably ones resulting in you becoming a serial baby-mama spawning fatherless little brats that you expect gainfully employed taxpayers like myself to support. Let's look at the situation from an OBJECTIVE point of view. Five kids went joy-riding in a stolen car. Four were killed when the driver wrecked it. Their deaths were the direct result of the inappropriate and irresponsible behavior of each and every one of them. That does not make them heroes to be celebrated -- that makes them bad examples to be rejected. As I said in some of the comments above, i don't have a problem with your mourning these boys -- Lord knows that grieving is healthy and there is much to be mourned in the deaths of these boys. I even feel bad for you, since no one should have to lose friends so young in such a senseless manner. What I am saying is that they should not be celebrated, for it gives the wrong message. That you cannot see that is an indication of your own moral blindness. Oh, you are right about one thing -- I didn't know these boys. However, my years teaching high school give me a pretty good sense of what they were like, and I have probably had similar young men walk through my door over the years. If anything, that CONFIRMS my views.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 16:38:47 2006 (1zEfi)

16 Ah, looks like the rest of the gang is out to spew profanity and ignore my point. When folks die as a result of their own poor choices and criminal behavior, they are not heroes. To treat them as such is irresponsible. Some years ago, a student from my school tried to rob a gas station. The clerk fired three shots with the gun under the counter, hitting the kid twice and killing him dead on the spot. When asked if I felt any sadness, I lied to my students -- I told them no. Actually, I did -- I felt it was a terrible waste of the bullet that missed him. Do I judge these boys nearly that harshly? No , I do not. They did not deserve to die (I think the young man in the story above did). But I do not believe they should be treated as celebrated -- indeed, they should be held up as examples to be rejected by the community. Maybe when that starts to happen, we will begin to see reductions in crime, violence, and illegitimacy in your neighborhood.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 16:49:23 2006 (1zEfi)

17 Ok... all i have to say is that YOUR A FUCKING ASSWHOLE, YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW THESE BOYS!!! keep your damn thought to yourself!!

Posted by: Kayla Lee at Thu Jun 29 16:57:37 2006 (i0TrF)

18 And you, Kayla, appear to be ignorant and semi-literate. If you could read at grade level, you would see that my point is more about your community and its messed-up values as it is about these boys. If you didn't get that out of my original post, you would have gotten it out of the comment thread. And since you don't know me, keep YOUR damn thoughts to yourself. By the way -- the word "asshole" does not have a "w" in it.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 17:05:44 2006 (1zEfi)

19 well I THINK YOU SHOULD GET UR ASS KICK FOR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND I THINK YOU SHOULD KEEP UR SHIT OT URSELF NO ONE GIVES FUCK ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND IF I EVER SEE YOU BELIEVE I WILL KILL YOU B/C I KNEW ALL OF THEM VERY WELL BESIDES ONE AND THAT WAS DUSTIN SO FUCK YOU

Posted by: bethany hearrell at Thu Jun 29 17:24:06 2006 (q8cMy)

20 You have crossed the line "Rhymes with Right." Or "teacher." I'm not sugar coating anything anymore. Here is the real deal. So you knew of students just like these four boys. HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU POSSIBLY SAY THAT IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEM? You can't. Leave them be. It's none of your God Damned business. You don't have to butt your self into shit just so you can fucking amke it about your damn self. You know what, for this, I hope you go through the same exact thing with one of the most important people in your damned life as we all fucking did. I hope to God it does. Infact, I'm going to pray that it does. THAT IS WHAT YOU FUCKING NEED. Experience it your fucking self. Then try and take someone saying that about your loved one. MAYBE you'll get it through your thick head. Or maybe you'll be the one who dies in a random car accident because of some other drunk driver. Maybe you'll be in the wrong place at the wrong time JUST LIKE THEY WERE. No one deserves to die. Not even you. But, you do deserve to carry on a guilt for the rest of the life you have left. You deserve to be fuckin pushed around and disrespected. You don't deserve any respect after you fucking disrespect the dead?! Your so ignorant!!!! Damn. Do you not have any feelings at all? THIS MATTER DOES NOT CONCERN YOU. Your intitled to your own damn opinion. But no publicly. Stay the fuck out of their business and worry about your own damn problems. Did you get everything you wanted as a kid? Were you rich and handed everything? Could you do and say whatever you wanted and there would always be someone there to get you out of it? Or were you the lil sorry ass girl who has grown up to be so bitter because everyone made fun of her and stated their opinions so you have to get someone back? Thats how your coming off to me. Your a very insecure bitch, you know that. Focus on your own damn problems, not everyone elses across the fucking world. Oh yeah... God, its me, Paige. So, you know about Rhymes With Right. I think the teacher talking all that talk needs to experience a tragedy herself, first hand. Could you please have something terrible happen to someone she is really close to? I think it would do her a lot of good.

Posted by: Paige at Thu Jun 29 17:40:32 2006 (dnUjv)

21 Come and get me, Ms. Hearrell -- just remember that Texas is a concealed carry state and that using a gun to repel an assault on one's person won't even result in an arrest, much less a conviction. And that is not a threat -- that is just an observation about the way we do things down here. By the way -- you and your little girlfriends here are doing a fine job of honoring the memories of your friends and showing off what constitutes "community values" in your neck of the woods.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 17:41:57 2006 (1zEfi)

22 Actually, I am a "he", Paige. If you had bothered to look, my name is Greg. And by the way, I've shown no disrespect for the dead. I've said they should not be honored as heroes, not that they deserved to die. I've said that because of the manner of their deaths they should be seen as examples of what not to become. Oh, and that's a great little bit of blasphemy there at the end of your post -- clearly you have no relationship with the God of the Bible, for if you did you would know that we are to bless those who curse us, not beg God to curse those we disagree with. Now why don't you run along to the street-corner and get back to work, you foul-mouthed little gutter-snipe.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 17:50:39 2006 (1zEfi)

23 Okay, I'm going to take the ininative and be the bigger man here. Your a teacher. You've been through college. So your an adult. You atleast in your 20's. Your argueing with teenagers!!! Most of which are 16!!! Wow, your not showing yourself much maturity. You should be the bigger man. But, I beat you to it, sucka. THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY MATTERS IN THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT BETWEEN ALL OF US WHO DID KNOW THEM AND WERE FRIENDS WITH THEM AND YOU IS THAT WE ARE STILL, EVEN AFTER THEY PAST, PROVEING OURSELVES GOOD FRIENDS. YA KNOW, THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ME FEEL PRETTY DAMN GOOD ACTUALLY. WE ARE STANDING UP AND SPEAKING OUT FOR THEM. WE ARE STILL STANDING BESIDE THEM. THEY AER STILL OUR FRIENDS. MAYBE THEY AREN'T HERE IN PERSON, BUT THEY ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE IN OUR HEARTS. NO MATTER WHAT YOU FUCKS SAY. Oh, I don't know about anyone else. But, they ARE hereos to me. Everything happens for a reason, and because of them, so many people have discovered how precious life really is and how much to often they take people for granted. We've all realized that your best friend may not be back to school the following Monday because of an unexpected accident. Or any day for that matter. Ya know, it really sucks that it had to be them... But, because of them everyone has been more cautious about what they are doing. I'm not saying I'm happy this happened. No way. But, I'm glad there was good that came out of it. We all learned something that day. Something we will never forget. In my heart and mind, they are hereos. Our hereos.

Posted by: Paige at Thu Jun 29 18:27:52 2006 (dnUjv)

24 Actually, Paige, try 40s. And why am I arguing with you? because I have enough respect for teenagers to believe it is a worthwhile and important thing to do. Because I spend my days surrounded by kids your age, I know that you are capable of rational thought and moral reasoning. And if I had to (metaphorically speaking) bop you girls over your noses with a rolled up newspaper to get you to drop the crazy talk, so be it. And so that meant that I had to push you past the emotion and into the intellect -- so you didn't beat me, you joined me, which means we have finally met as equals. Welcome to a little bit of adulthood, my dear. If you notice, I'm not suggesting any of your friends was evil, or that they deserved to die. They didn't -- and I've said that in comments above the ones tonight. Their deaths SUCK, and offend me deeply, because kids are not supposed to die. But they do, and we are all left to make sense out of it. We are all left to learn from it, in cases like this one -- and it sounds like maybe you and some of your friends have. But you finally acknowledged a big part of my point without realizing it -- if they are role models, then they are negative role models of what not to do and how not to make decisions. Any good that comes out of their death is good that comes from NOT following their examples. Do you not see where we are saying very much the same thing? The problem with celebrating these boys as heroes is that it leads to minimizing their wrong decisions and the fact that wrong choices led to their deaths. Several years ago a kid from my neighborhood died when he ran his car into a ditch while trying to outrun the cops going 90 MPH. Lat fall a former student died in what was essentially a gang fight. I mourned them both as kids with potentially who would never meet it -- and as kids of whom I was particularly fond (Adam, the second boy, was 18, recently married to another former student, and the father of a new baby). Neither boy "deserved" to die -- but they didn't deserve to be whitewashed and canonized as if their wrong actions were irrelevant to their deaths. And so I say to you, as I have been saying this whole thread -- mourn them, miss them, love them in your heart forever. Just don't make them out to be innocents gone too soon and positive models of what other young people should strive to be, for the choices that led to their unfortunate deaths necessarily serve to define them. You want examples of that? Benedict Arnold was a great general and a hero of the American Rebolution, until he decided to sell-out the 13 colonies -- and that decision will ever define him. So, too, will Judas' betraying kiss define him -- even though he was the disciple who was trusted by Jesus to control the money they all shared in common. Their wrong choices and theconsequences define them. Can we agree on that?

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jun 29 19:03:35 2006 (1zEfi)

25 Go play in traffic you fucking moron rhymes

Posted by: proxima at Thu Jun 29 22:38:09 2006 (OLMLi)

26 Your a fucking moron rhymes, go play in traffic

Posted by: proxima at Thu Jun 29 22:38:33 2006 (OLMLi)

27 Proxima -- I have the wisdom not to play in traffic, or in stolen vehicles.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Jun 30 00:51:16 2006 (1zEfi)

28 I can somewhat see what you are trying to say. But, the way you have worded it in your articles above bring everyone to understand it in a comlpetely different way than you do. Will you consider that? And no, they weren't innocent. Not one of them. But, I guess we don't look at their guilty roles in the whole situation because of the drver's mistakes. I do have to say that I have come to realize, most of us are focusing on Jeremy, the driver. We are focusing on all the wrong he did because he was simply the only one that survived, the fact that he was the one driving and lost control, and the fucked up things he did that night. Trying to put one of the boys in the drivers seat. Trying to get away and not call for help so it would look like he wasn't involved. The four boys were the victims of those selfish and inconsiderate ways. That is all we are focusing on. We do though, need to look at the fact that it was indeed their choice to get into that car, and take it into consideration. Every one of those boys knew the possiblities of drinking and driving. We all do. They took their chances, just as may of us do today. I know that if we could talk to them, they would take their part of the blame. Atleast, I know Dustin would. Each one of them knew what they were doing was wrong and was very risky. The did have a choice in that matter. They made the wrong choice, and instead of it being temporary and tmie taking it away, it's permanent. They didn't mean for it to happen. I hope that Jeremy really did loose control and didn't purposely wreck the car. He didn't mean for it to happen. I think that we all just need to leave them at reat and quit argueing about it. I know I argued somewhat, so don't call me hypocrite. I am now realizing. I mean there is nothing we can do to change what has happened. What is done is done. I believe in God. He is the most importnat thing to me. All I know is, they are in a better place. It was their time to go. I believe it was in God's plans. Not to kill them, but to bring them home. With that said and done, can we all just quit argueing about this. Let the four boys Rest In Peace. Quit with all the negative feelings and words, it isn't helping. I know I said things. I apologize. Rest In Peace *Dustin Shane Van Hoose* December 14, 1989 - October 30, 2005 *Joey Bruce* *Joshua Flemming* *Ian Bailey*

Posted by: Paige at Fri Jun 30 07:25:41 2006 (y6n8O)

29 While I don't agree with you in all that you said, please know that I respect all of what you said in that last comment. It shows the better angels of your nature, and your reach towards true maturity. Well done, dear girl, and know that you (and even the ruder folks above) have always had my deepest sympathies in your time of loss. I have no qualms about saying that all of you were innocent victims. In truth, my criticism was less directed at these boys than at an attitude that is all too prevalent in our society. May your friends rest in peace, and may their friends be comforted.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Jun 30 08:04:04 2006 (J7UgM)

30 Thank you I appreciate it. Now, to anyone else who comes across this. Do Joey, Josh, Ian, and Dusitn a favor. Just let them rest in peace.

Posted by: Paige at Fri Jun 30 11:35:11 2006 (HXqNL)

31 OK let me start by saying, i know what you mean. No They shouldn't be labeled as heros because they were kids, they should be labeled as heros because of who they were at heart. Good People Fuck Up Too. There is no point for anyone else to get on here and cuss "Greg" out. It's Dumb. We're all getting worked up for nothing...just don't read this dumb shit anymore. He has stated his opinions and thats just grand. Theres noway we can change it, and by "fighting" with this "Teacher" will do nothing positive for your greiving process. Move elsewhere and forget about this dumbass site. If we all tried to protect the ones we lost then we would never truly be happy. Kiddos it comes down to this, cussing at him...praying that he feels the same pain we do...tring to say his opinion is wrong....Its all pointless and a complete waste of time. This guy will never truly know anything about who these kids were. Never smile with them. Never tell crazy ass jokes with them. Never get into trouble with them. Never talk to them. Never know what kind of hell some of them went through at home. Never feel guilty for his death when he shouldn't. Never have nightmares about the inccident. Never have to see the faces of loved ones crying as they stare down at the cold, lifeless, broken, body that barely resembled the real sweetheart you once held. No, he will never know any of those things...so theres no point in trying to teach the teacher. All i can say to reverse the damage thats already been done is to tell you guys to stay strong and keep moving on with life...live life to the fullest, but be cautious, live it as if you were living to make up for the life they will never get to finish. Love you guys so much. Clearly you are amazing friends... As For You "Greg" Start A Journal Sweetie, Really, What Kind Of "Teacher" Deals With Students Mourning All The Time And Claims To Know What They Are Going Through Would Write Such Strong Opinions? You Had To At Least Have An Idea That It Would Offend People Mouring. I Mean, Would You Post This On The Bullitin Board At Your School For All Your Kids In Griveing To Read? Use That Collage Leveled Brain Of Your To Think About Others. Why In Gods Name Would You Call Teenagers "Punks" Or Comment That They Should Be On A Corner Working Is Above And Beyond A Dumbass Move On Your Part. Clearly You Need To Take A Break From Working To Help Kids And Find A Better Job...Like A Police Officer. Then Let Me Know How You Feel When You Have To Tell The Familys That Someone Died. Tell Them How You Really Feel About Them. Hopefully You Dont Get The Reaction From People You Deserve.... Killing An Officer Is Highly Frowned Apon These Days Darlin... Ok, Now I'm Back To Being The Brittany I Was At The Beginning, Forget Him Lovelys And Stay Strong...

Posted by: Brittany Lynne at Fri Jun 30 13:03:24 2006 (tPVRw)

32 Well, Little Miss Bitchy (that is your My Space name, I see), might I suggest that you learn a little bit of respect for your elders and not presume to give us career or other counseling. Develop some basic literacy skills first, you spoiled child. And as i have said above, my goal WAS to offend people -- that is usually the response you get when you tell the unvarnished truth. But what people ought to be offended at is turning a bunch of kids who died breaking the law into a heroes and role-models, not my criticism of those who make that mistake. As for my more pointed comments, they were directed at what I perceive as the level of morality of the person involved, bivven the insults, profanity, and threats directed my way. You don't like it -- don't talk to me that way. I'm usually a much more accommodating host. Want an example? Notice the different way I engaged Paige when she decided to apply a little bit of intellect rather than the initial insulting barrage. I respect her -- but your response merits no respect at all.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Jul 1 05:45:05 2006 (ZjpIs)

33 AAAlllllrrrriiight People. Lets drop it. No matter what we say or how much we agrue it's not going to change the fact that they are dead and are never coming back. They made a mistake, we all do. We just need to accept the facts. Lets respect eachother's opinions and be done with this. You may not agree, but everyone is intitled to thier own opinion. Now can we all agree to drop this? I mean come on. Its been exactly 8 months and a day. Let's just drop this arguement.

Posted by: Paige at Sat Jul 1 11:22:05 2006 (vyJ4U)

34 *nods in agreement*

Posted by: proxima at Sat Jul 1 23:03:36 2006 (OLMLi)

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