September 21, 2006
When McLean High School students write this year about Othello or immigration policy, their teachers won't be the only ones examining the papers. So will a California company that specializes in catching cheaters.The for-profit service known as Turnitin checks student work against a database of more than 22 million papers written by students around the world, as well as online sources and electronic archives of journals. School administrators said the service, which they will start using next week, is meant to deter plagiarism at a time when the Internet makes it easy to copy someone else's words.
But some McLean High students are rebelling. Members of the new Committee for Students' Rights said they do not cheat or condone cheating. But they object to Turnitin's automatically adding their essays to the massive database, calling it an infringement of intellectual property rights. And they contend that the school's action will tar students at one of Fairfax County's academic powerhouses.
"It irked a lot of people because there's an implication of assumed guilt," said Ben Donovan, 18, a senior who helped collect 1,190 student signatures on a petition against mandatory use of the service. "It's like if you searched every car in the parking lot or drug-tested every student."
But the school can search every car in the parking lot without a warrant -- that is part of the agreement you make with the school when you get your parking sticker. And they can search your locker without a warrant as well.
And speaking as a teacher, I've seen how rampant plagiarism really is. Several years ago, one of my students submitted a research paper in which he told of sittin on a hillside overlooking Nagasaki, mentally tracing the path of the falling atomic bomb. The paper was lfed in its entirety from a website ("but I didn't copy anything -- my uncle wrote the paper for me"). In my college-level night class, I recently received a paper which was cut and pasted from multiple sources without even anything to connect the parts -- and included the claim that the NAACP had given the author their photo archive for cataloging and preservation (a direct copy from the Library of Congress website) without a single citation.
Either our students need more to develop greater personal honesty, or they need to accept that being checked for plagiarism is part of the implied contract between teacher and students.
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Posted by: TheBizofKnowledge at Thu Sep 21 23:04:05 2006 (eaOOQ)
By all means we are not pro-plagerism or pro-cheating--but very far from it. We just feel as though we shouldnt be forced to do something that we feel is a violation of our rights--the rights that under the Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook of fairfax county specifically says it will protect. yes we give up some--and i believe Ben was misquoted about the cars being able to be searched cause they could be if we park them on school grounds--but the drugtesting thing should be ridiculous. Giving student's a zero because they don't turn it in to turnitin is just like saying that the kid is cheating--hence the presumed guilt until proven innocent. Its horrible and its a bad system.
Furthermore, the school's new claim (originally it was a crackdown on plagerism) about why turnitin is used is to teach kids about plagerism and how not to plagerize. I dont want to be taught by a robot, robots dont teach well, they dont use real life expiriences, they dont speak. Teachers do, all we are asking is that the teachers actually TEACH us, insted of cutting corners and coercing us to upload a paper onto a for-profit entity. How am I supposed to learn that way?
Posted by: Daniel Freudberg at Fri Sep 22 09:17:54 2006 (siFVY)
And your teachers DO, in fact teach -- they are simply using a tool to check one aspect of your work. They grade the papers, but the program simply serves as a tool to enhance the ability to check for plagiarism. You do support using modern tools, don't you? Or do you and your friends insist that you use only physical resources for your research (no internet -- books only) and turn them in on unbleached parchment written in quill pen? And i am certain that you don't eschew spell-checkers if you do use a computer. Why deprive your teachers of the ability to use the same sorts of computer technology you access?
Your response makes it clear to me that you really are objecting to the use of tools that make it easier to catch you and your peers cheating.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Sep 22 12:36:32 2006 (2M25o)
Students who object to using trnitin will be permitted to turn in a physical hard-copy of the paper. However, because they choose to deny their teachers the use of the latest technology, the students who choose this option will be forbidden to use internet sites or word processing programs. papers must be typed on a standard typewriter, and all resources must be hard-copy resources available from publicly accessible libraries within a 20 mile radius of the school. Students must provide the location of the sources used so that teachers may check to see if the references actually exist at the site listed.
Students using turnitin may continue to use the electronic resources that their neo-Luddite classmates reject.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Sep 22 12:53:47 2006 (2M25o)
Posted by: fuer at Fri Sep 22 14:19:16 2006 (ufXk2)
Posted by: john cobarruvias at Fri Sep 22 15:57:36 2006 (ye61y)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Sep 23 02:13:13 2006 (dAeZn)
Why not?
Because teaching at a school where over half the kids are receiving free lunch, we can't even assume computer access, much less internet access to make use of turnitin.
After all, some folks live and work in a wealthy area where they never have to see poor folks while spouting leftist platitudes -- some of us actually work with those in poverty to help them improve their lot.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Sep 23 02:17:46 2006 (dAeZn)
I say require the students to submit the paper to Turnitin, but don't allow Turnitin to keep a copy of the student's work in its database. There is definitely an intellectual property issue here. Should a teacher be allowed to publish a book of student essays without the permission of the student authors of those essays?
Posted by: Darren at Sat Sep 23 05:40:20 2006 (8sBNZ)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Sep 23 06:00:00 2006 (kbzn+)
I'd argue it is more like my old custom -- keeping a copy of all student research papers (and other "major grade" papers) in my file cabinet for reference purposes.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Sep 23 06:00:42 2006 (kbzn+)
This makes it harder for students to plagarize, and it is easier for me to catch them when they do without the benefit of a computer program.
Posted by: Rebecca at Mon Sep 25 02:53:20 2006 (dguPP)
Here is what you do not seem to understand:
You are not supposed to keep copies of students' papers without their explicit permission. Papers are in your possession for the sole purpose of temporary evaluation/grading. Once you grade a paper, your right to maintain a copy no longer exists! Do you have written permission from each of those past students to keep a copy of their intellectual property?
Posted by: Ralph at Thu Oct 5 17:32:31 2006 (JPIQ9)
The only thing I would need permission for is republication or redistribution. Retaining a copy for files would constitute a legitimate case of 'fair use" for educational purposes under copyright law.
Now, if you would care to post some case law to the contrary, I would find that interesting -- otherwise I understand that you are just talking out your @$$.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Oct 5 22:28:08 2006 (xPrie)
1. each student explicitly granted you rights;
2. each student had aready published the papers in the public domain, without coercion.
So, which one is it, "Rhymes"?
Posted by: Ralph at Fri Oct 6 04:37:55 2006 (JPIQ9)
As such, I'm done with the discussion.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Oct 6 13:42:31 2006 (3O0Dn)
Posted by: Ralph at Fri Oct 6 18:46:27 2006 (JPIQ9)
I've asked, as part and parcel of a rational discussion, for you to provide some support for your assertions.
You either will not or cannot.
I'm therefore forced to conclude that you are making it up as you go along.
In that case, there is no basis for further discussion -- you are asking me to "take it on faith".
Provide some support for your argument and we can continue talking. Absent that evidence, there is nothing to talk about except the weather.
By the way, "Ralph" -- who is Amy?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Oct 7 00:55:08 2006 (4rUAi)
Posted by: Jeanne at Sat Oct 7 07:41:36 2006 (fEnUg)
The kids are free to follow their principles. They are also free to choose to receive a passing grade. After all, choices have consequences.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Oct 7 09:19:29 2006 (X/70j)
The kids are free to follow their principles. They are also free to choose to receive a passing grade. After all, choices have consequences.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Oct 7 09:25:08 2006 (X/70j)
http://www.essayfra-ud.org/turnitin_john_barrie.html
Please read that article, "Rhymes With Right."
Remove the hyphen from the domain name, and the URL will work. I don't know why this forum is blocking the second half of that domain name.
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