November 24, 2006

Turks Put Truth On Trial, Demand Pope Lie

These two stories seem to create such a lovely contrast about the relationship between Islam and truth -- even in allegedly secular Turkey.

First, there is this story about converts from Islam to Christianity.

Two men who converted to Christianity went on trial Thursday for allegedly insulting "Turkishness" and inciting religious hatred against Islam, the Anatolia news agency reported.

* * *

Hakan Tastan, 37, and Turan Topal, 46, are accused of making the insults and of inciting hate while allegedly trying to convert other Turks to Christianity. If convicted, the two Turkish men could face up to nine years in prison.

The men were charged under Turkey's Article 301, which has been used to bring charges against dozens of intellectuals — including Nobel Prize-winner Orhan Pamuk.

The law has widely been condemned for severely limiting free expression and European officials have demanded Turkey change it as part of reforms to join the EU.

They also are charged under a law against inciting hatred based on religion.

Prosecutors accuse the two of allegedly telling possible converts that Islam was "a primitive and fabricated" religion and that Turks would remain "barbarians" as long they continued practicing Islam, Anatolia reported.

The prosecutors also accused them of speaking out against the country's compulsory military service, and compiling databases on possible converts.

Tastan and Topal denied the accusations in court.

"I am a Turk, I am a Turkish citizen. I don't accept the accusations of insulting 'Turkishness,'" Anatolia quoted Tastan as telling the court. "I am a Christian, that's true. I explain the Bible ... to people who want to learn. I am innocent."

So let's break it down and examine the nature of the alleged offense.

1) They stated that Islam was untrue, and that it was made up by Muhammad. Not an unreasonable position for a Christian to take, if you think about it. After all, if one believed that Islam were true and revealed by God, one would be intellectually and spiritually compelled to be a Muslim, correct?

2) Let's consider the contemporary evils committed in the name of Islam, and determine whether there is an element of barbarism in the faith. Has the Islamic world particularly advanced beyond barbarism?

3) They criticized conscription -- hardly an unreasonable position, particularly if they are of a Christian sect that takes a more pacifistic approach to Christian theology.

4) The compiled a database of possible converts -- which means they decided to engage in evangelism in a logical, organized manner. Why should this be a crime?

In other words, there is nothing in any of these charges that any reasonable person could consider a crime -- but for speaking the Truth of the Gospel, these men are on trial for offenses against Mosque and State. Taken as a whole, it seems clear that their real offense is apostasy from Islam.

Let's hope that this case is used as the final piece of evidence to end Turkey's chance of becoming part of the EU.

* * *

On the other hand, Muslim Turks are demanding that the Pope tell a lie when he visits Turkey.

Turkey's top Muslim official said on Thursday Pope Benedict should state clearly during a planned visit to Turkey next week he believes Islam, like Christianity, to be a religion of peace.

* * *

"I think the attitude the Pope should take is that neither Islam nor Christianity is a source of violence," said Ali Bardakoglu, who heads Ankara's Directorate General for Religious Affairs which controls Turkish imams and writes their sermons.

"If they ask me if Christianity has been the cause of violence, I would say no, that is not so ... We believe all prophets sent by God, from Moses to Jesus and Mohammad, are messengers of compassion," he told Reuters in an interview.

Violence committed in the name of religion was the fault of fallible and misguided human beings, he said.

"I believe the Pope shares this view and his saying this will be in the interests of all humanity," he said.

And I don't doubt that any failure by Benedict to make a statement that Islam is a religion of peace will be met with riots, arson, beatings bombings and other assorted acts of mayhem committed by Muslims in protest. After all, that has been their response to cartoons and comments that have offended them in the past. While I'll concede that the vast majority of Muslims are good, decent, and peaceful people, there is clearly something in their religion that propagates violence.

Posted by: Greg at 12:52 AM | Comments (13) | Add Comment
Post contains 774 words, total size 5 kb.

1

Freedom of religion as you define it was absent during the prime of Christian Europe's existence.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Fri Nov 24 04:37:47 2006 (DZbll)

2 And your point being?

The Christian world has long-since outgrown compulsion in religious faith; Islam still murders those whose conscience leads them elsewhere and those who have never been Muslim -- particularly if they are Jews or dare to speak truthfully about Islam.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Nov 24 06:47:17 2006 (bZJw3)

3 Yes the Christian European world ,as Spengler opined, is no longer in its prime.

Posted by: Ken Hoop at Sat Nov 25 07:30:55 2006 (EPkr9)

4 Ah, KKKen, so now you long for the days of heretic burning! Is there no level of depravity to which your false vision of the Gospel will take you?

But then again, it would explain your notable lack of Christian charity on another current thread.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Nov 25 09:35:29 2006 (FTh9D)

5

Your Judeo-centric view of the world bares itself in prioritizing Moslem coercion of Jews rather than Christians.


The Inquisition had far fewer victims than generally believed due to liberals writing the history. And I would not assert Luther and Calvin had "false views of the Gospel" because they attempted to limit the disruptive influence of Servetus and Anabaptist types. A close call perhaps , but the atmosphere prevalent then was essentially Christian whereas you favor the liberal decadence of contemporary secularism.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Sun Nov 26 12:00:01 2006 (Cs2j3)

6 In other words, "Yes, I, KKKen Hoop, want to sink into the sin and degradation that leads to the murder of religious dissenters. Indeed, I rejoice in such evil."

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sun Nov 26 15:59:40 2006 (oflay)

7

Weren't you aware of the world's imperfection, Groggy? Even of Christian leadership? Better we have the least common denominator lethargic clergy of the Vineyard feel goods and the escapist pagans of dispensationalism sanctioning a slaughter of Arabs which makes similar statistics of Christian dissenters of past ages seem insignificant.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Mon Nov 27 08:39:05 2006 (DZbll)

8 I'm well aware of the sin and weaknesses of Christian leaders, KKKen, though I find your shortcomings as a Christian to be much more significant.

As for the comments you make, I've got little use for the Vineyard folks. But I find your "let's kill the Jews" theology much more troubling, and find it odd that the only folks you see as "good Christians" today are jihadi terrorists who seek to kill Jews. Why don't you simply admit your apostasy from the faith of Christ, and acknowledge you have converted to the false religion of Islam.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Mon Nov 27 10:56:49 2006 (SmxLX)

9 Here is a very interesting news story on Pope and Turkey. It actually also shows some common grounds. The story is from RFERL but appears in HULIQ at http://www.huliq.com/198/turkey-popes-visit-a-milestone-for-christians-and-muslims

I think this is a great opportunity to strengthen the Christian Muslim dialogue.

Posted by: Nata at Mon Nov 27 15:44:32 2006 (nflPV)

10

Why don't you admit you're an un-Chritian lying charlatan who believes he can portray those opposed to Zionist control of Congress as promoters of mass killing of Jews and get away with it in God's eyes? And please confess also your compulsion to do so out of guilt arising from your abject fear of "the Lobby" and subservience to it.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Tue Nov 28 10:02:01 2006 (7GYBH)

11 Gee, KKKen, can you string together any more Jew-hatred into one sentence?

I'll be the first to concede there is room to question Israeli policies and practices -- but anyone who questions Israel's right to exist as a homeland for the Jews is no Christian, given their rejection of God's clear promises in Scripture.

But then again, you and I have very different views of what constitutes being a Christian, KKKen.

After all, since you have declared jihadi terrorists to be "soldiers of Christ" it is obvious that to your way of thinking Christians should have cheered the jihadis who brought down the World Trade Center and declared 9/11 to be a glorious day for the cause of Christ.

You are a sick "man" (and I apply that word loosely).

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Nov 28 11:15:15 2006 (XbFHV)

12

Tony Judt is among the leading Jewish scholars who question Israel's right to exist. Authored a long essay in NY Review of Books.


And your continued heretical application of the long elapsed Abrahamic Covenant casts you as outside the mainstream of traditional Christianity, charitably put. And Islam is currently putting an end to this fantasy, just as Luther put an end to the radical Anabaptist Muenster-ites communist "utopia."


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Wed Nov 29 11:19:05 2006 (7GYBH)

13 Sorry, I don't care what Tony Cundt has to say on the matter, KKKen -- he is no different than the local "darkie" who would tell how great segregation and second class citizenship was for teh "colored people".

And thank you for clarifying that your Jew-hatred extends to the slaughter of innocent men, women, and children based upon your warped theological anti-Semitism and bizarre notion that jihadis are doing the work of Christ. I hope you enjoy your spot in hell along with them, KKKen.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Nov 29 14:01:16 2006 (rJ+HS)

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