October 13, 2006
U.S. agents question teen
Girl ran anti-Bush page on MySpace
Those fascists! How dare they harass this poor child for exercising her First Amendment rights.
Only if you read the story do you find it is more than an “anti-Bush” site.
The latest Sacramento resident to be questioned by federal agents in possible threats against President Bush is a 14-year-old girl with a heart on her backpack and braces on her teeth, a freckle-nosed adolescent who is passionate about liberal politics and cute movie stars.Her name is Julia Wilson, and she learned a vivid civics lesson Wednesday when two Secret Service agents pulled her out of biology class at McClatchy High School to ask about comments and images she posted on MySpace.
Beneath the words "Kill Bush," Julia posted a cartoonish photo-collage of a knife stabbing the hand of the president. It was one of a few images Julia said she used to decorate an anti-Bush Web page she moderated on MySpace, the social networking Web site that is hugely popular among teenagers.
Yes, you read that right – “Kill Bush”. A graphic of a knife stabbing the president. Sounds like a possible threat that needs to be checked out, and possibly a violation of federal law. Certainly more than merely an “anti-Bush” site.
This brainless child’s parents are very upset – but not at their daughter. No, they upset that the Secret Service would DARE question her baby – especially without one of them present.
Federal law prohibits making serious threats against the president, and Julia and her parents say what she did was wrong.The couple are disturbed, however, that federal agents questioned a child at school -- without her parents present. And First Amendment lawyers question whether the Secret Service over-reacted to a 14-year-old's comments on a Web site made for casual socializing.
"I don't condone what she did, but it seems a little over the top to me," said Julia's father, Jim Moose. "You'd think they could look at the situation and determine that she's not a credible threat."
Actually, you fool, they donÂ’t know what the situation is until they investigate. Suppose that, instead of an ill-informed little brat raised by overly-indulgent parents, the site was operated by a nascent Dylan Klebold or Eric Harris? No one took them seriously before they attacked their high school and murdered 13 people. How was the Secret Service to know that your daughter wasnÂ’t a mentally and morally disturbed sociopath? What is over the top, sir, is that you think they should NOT have pursued the matter as they did.
Here is how Julia Wilson's family tells their story:Two Secret Service agents arrived at their Land Park home about 2:30 Wednesday afternoon, Kirstie Wilson said. They told her they wanted to speak with her daughter about threats to the president that she had posted on MySpace.
"She was in molecular biology, and I said I really didn't want to take her out of class for this," Kirstie Wilson said. "I said I'd make sure she came right home from school."
She asked the agents to come back in an hour, and they left.
Then Wilson sent her daughter a text message instructing her to come straight home from school.
"... there are two men from the secret service that want to talk with you. Apparently you made some death threats against president bush. Dont worry youre not going to jail or anything like that but they take these things very seriously these days," Kirstie Wilson wrote.
"Are you serious!?!? omg. Am I in a lot of trouble"? her daughter replied, using common teenage shorthand for "Oh, my God."
Kirstie Wilson called her husband. While they were on the phone, she received another text message from her daughter: "They took me out of class."
I guess that the Wilson family believes that law enforcement should schedule their appointments with potential assassins at the convenience of them and their families – you know, just to allow them to gather up their weapons of choice and go underground until they can do commit their murder.
And one more thing about this case, Mom and Dad were completely unaware of what their child was doing on the internet. They are lucky that all she lured out of the woodwork was a pair of nice Secret Service agents wanting to question her about her potentially criminal activity. They are lucky that she wasnÂ’t abused or abducted, or lured to the Middle East for a child marriage and conversion to Islam. Rather than bitching, they should hit their knees that they were spared any of those true horrors.
By the way, this was not an isolated incident for young Julia. She started the space last year calling it "People who want to stab Bush". Why MySpace didnÂ’t delete the account then for violating its terms of service is a mystery to me. She then changed it to "So Bush is an idiot but hey what else is new?", but left the graphic. It appears, though, that she never considered that her art work was also a potentially illegal act.
I think this stupid little child need to change the name of her group now. How about the title of this blog post -- “So Julia Wilson and her parents are idiots, but hey what else is new?”
UPDATE: I've run across several additional articles, and found a couple of quotes that make my blood boil.
The first couple are from Julia's over-indulgent, under-involved "parents".
"She obviously is not a threat to society, if you look at her age, her family background, the cartoonish nature of the MySpace page," said her father, Jim Moose, an environmental lawyer."She is just a typical teenage girl who made a mistake," said her mother during an interview at their neatly landscaped home.
First, Mommy Dearest, she is a girl who potentially committed a crime, not merely "a typical teenage girl who made a mistake". She deserved to be questioned. And Daddy Dearest, it is clear that you are a typical liberal hypocrite -- after all, your argument is that law enforcement should look and find out that this is a rich white little girl from a good home and therefore miraculously divined that she was no threat, because we all know that it is only "those people" (black, Hispanic, poor) who commit crimes.
Then there is this whine from the little anti-American felon-in-training herself.
Julia Wilson said the agents threatened her by saying she could be sent to juvenile hall for making the threat."They yelled at me a lot," she said. "They were unnecessarily mean."
In other words, they told you what could happen if you were charged as a juvenile. They didn't get you a double half-caf latte with extra milk before asking you any questions and they raised their voices, so you got your feelings hurt over that because Mommy and Daddy have told you that the universe revolves areound Uranus and you therefore don't have to accept the authority of anyone but yourself. Too bad they didn't cuff you and take you in for further questioning -- then maybe you would learn that your conduct was seriously wrong.
UPDATE 2: One more stupid comment from this self-centered little imbecile.
On Friday, the teenager said the agents' questioning led her to tears."I wasn't dangerous. I mean, look at what's (stenciled) on my backpack - it's a heart. I'm a very peace-loving person," said Wilson, an honor student who describes herself as politically passionate. "I'm against the war in Iraq. I'm not going to kill the president."
Four observations, you self-absorbed little brat:
1) John Wilkes Booth was a popular actor. He was pro-secession, and pro-slavery, but he would never try to kill the President.
2) Lee Harvey Oswald was a family man with a baby who was also a Communist. He'd never try to kill the President.
3) John Hinkley came from a good home in a nice neighborhood. he would never try to kill the President.
4) How many terrorists were "good Muslims" carrying a Koran? How many criminals are wearing hearts, crosses or other "nice" symbols when they are arrested -- or when they commit their crime?
UPDATE 3: Looks like the young lady is capable of learning and has some common sense after all. I dislike her politics, but support her next move.
And I'll post here my offer from the comments -- if Julia and/or her parents wish to comment here they are welcome, and if they wish to submit a piece for me to publish as a featured piece on this site I will be glad to host it. I'm willing to let them get out their side of teh story.
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Great post.
Posted by: Hube at Sat Oct 14 01:13:15 2006 (ylGC1)
Take a deep breath - it's just a silly girl and some overly-protective parents. Nothing to let your blood boil about.
Posted by: Dan at Sun Oct 15 14:12:56 2006 (IU21y)
Posted by: gbradley at Sun Oct 15 14:17:35 2006 (0NuhP)
This is not a "silly girl and her overly-protective parents". This is indicative of how a lot of parents react to any atempt to impose discipline or apply the law to their children. We had a case here in Houston in the last couple of weeks where a parents attacked and beat an armed police officer at a school -- because their child was being given a citation for truancy! I stepped in to prevent a student from striking one of our female assistant principals last year in a crowded hallway outside my room (the kid had reared back, cocked his fist and was prepared to throw a punch before I stepped in front of him), and had the boy's mother come to school and raise a fuss -- because I dared raise my voice to her son. There was a teen drinking party broken up last year in one of the ritzier Houston suburbs and the parents were outraged -- that their children were arrested, transported to the police station and charged with an offense rather than skating with a warning and being allowed to call their parents from the scene. Even Houston's mayor questioned why his little underage angel was arrested for DUI after being caught weaving down the highway drunk in the middle of the night with her headlights off.
The kid committed a crime -- and the parents are more concerned with the fact that their daughter was questioned by the authorities than that she made a threat (if an idle one) to kill the president. The were so oblivious to her actions that they didn't know what she was doing on the Net at 13 or 14 years old -- but they then demand to be present when she is being questioned over her criminal activity. She's upset that the Secret Sevice was mean to her -- when they could have cuffed the little brat and made her sit in a holding cell for a couple of days instead of letting her go with a warning.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Mon Oct 16 00:57:39 2006 (4nXaP)
Posted by: American at Tue Oct 17 03:36:59 2006 (Qd4BB)
Or maybe they can use Bushies new torture bill to extract some information from her. After all, Americans are assumed terrorist if they don't kiss Bush's ring.
Or maybe they can throw her into one of those newly Halliburton built dentention centers going up all over America. Ya know, for the terrorists. That would be anyone who disagrees with the Murderer-in-Chief.
Or maybe they should just shoot her now, ya know, preemptively, just in case she might grow up to be a terrorist.
Oh, better yet. Make her 'volunteer' to join the military. That's one less bratty american they will have to deal with. Because, as we all know Bush is married to Saudi Arabia. Bush doesn't give a shit about America. Bush hates Americans. Bush eats the souls of Americans. OH and when I say Bush, I mean the entire cabal he represents.
Little girl, you better put on your little flag pin and obey your Master-in-chief.
Posted by: American at Tue Oct 17 03:59:54 2006 (Qd4BB)
If I posted a threat on my wesite to kill you, I would be investigated and probably arrested. Shouldn't a threat like the one this girl posted be treated precisely the same way?
While I'm glad you dragged yourself out of the fever swamps that are unDemocratic Underground, Daily KOnSpiracy and MoveOn.ORGyOf Hate, I fear you are terminally infected with their insanity.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 17 08:09:45 2006 (4nXaP)
Posted by: lil at Tue Oct 17 13:43:34 2006 (XFPdV)
Posted by: lil at Tue Oct 17 13:46:05 2006 (XFPdV)
But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land
For murder is the sport of the elected
And you don't need to lift a finger of your hand
Happy War!
Posted by: Bushimself at Tue Oct 17 14:55:07 2006 (km+pU)
Your little friend posted threatening words and images regarding the President of the United States -- that is a FELONY that could earn you hard time in a federal prison (I believe 10 years, but I'd have to check that out to be sure). She deserved the scrutiny of the Secret Servic, deserved to be interrogated, and deserved to have the living shit frightened out of her. Frankly, she should be thanking whatever God she believes in that she is not facing criminal charges.
By the way, your friend gave interviews to multiple reporters in her attempt to turn herself into a victim of oppression rather than the perpetrator of a crime. Guess what -- her complaints do not carry an ounce of weight. Neither do those of her parents. But since the family went public with the story in an attempt to seek sympathy, I'll feel free to comment on the matter. After all, THEY put it in the public arena, not the Secret Service! I'll therefore feel as free to comment on the matter as they did -- a right protected, I must add, by the First Amendment to the Constitution. You might want to familiarize yourself with that document -- I bet there are copies of it in some of the books in your school library.
By the way, take it from a man who has spent most of his adult life working with children your age -- at 14, she is most certainly still a little girl, as are you. The immature words and actions of both of you make it clear that you are both far from adulthood. Sadly, it appears that Julia lacks any real adults in her household -- mom and dad appear just as immature. I do hope that YOUR parents are grown-ups.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 17 16:34:51 2006 (E2lGH)
How many of you actually saw the little girl's Myspace page? How many of you know exactly what was said on her page? How many of you know exactly what happened during the "interrogation"? So what if the S.S. was 'mean' to her, boo-hoo- that's probably the least they could have done to her. Do any of you know that it's not mandatory to have the parents in the room while the child is being interrogated? Do any of you know the laws that pertain to the 1st Amendment? What about the Federal or State laws that state threats of harm or to kill the President of the United States is illegal? What other 13-14-year old children do you know that have expressed threats before? There have been many, and when people do not take threats seriously, you get situations like Columbine. Who cares if the child has straight A's in school, who cares if the S.S. took the little girl out of her microbiology class, this doesn't that the little girl doesn't have the capacity to kill or follow through with her threat. And, just because she didn't follow through with her threat the last two times that Bush was in Sacramento doesn't mean that she didn't plan on following through with her threat at a later date. You see for those who take pity on the "poor little girl" because she is an upstanding citizen with straight A's and piggy tails in her hair and comes from a "good home", I feel sorry for you! I feel sorry because you are the ones who are ignorant. If you let things like that persuade your opinion of the little girl, I'd hate to see you on a murder trial! (oh, but he was molested as a child, it's ok that he murdered someone.)
PS- The first commentary was excellent and I agree with Rhymes with Right!!
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 17 16:40:05 2006 (E2lGH)
Do you really think that makes you profound? Do you really think the Police (or Sting as a solo artist) are particularly profound? If you answer "Yes" to either question, please seek professional help immediately, before you become a terminal case like the unAmerican "American" who posted above.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 17 16:43:57 2006 (E2lGH)
Posted by: Infantry of Allah at Tue Oct 17 20:05:12 2006 (LPHeI)
Posted by: Senor Escabar at Tue Oct 17 21:41:37 2006 (Dykn7)
I'm curious -- where are threats to kill the head of state considered to be free speech? Please name one country for me.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 17 21:57:29 2006 (ZNQkp)
Posted by: Senor Escabar at Tue Oct 17 22:54:07 2006 (Dykn7)
If you want to prevent anyone to became a psico teach him to respect by respecting him and not use fear as weapon. Fear will only bring inner revolt, that in some cases will bring outter revolt...
BTW: A country that elects a moron as president is populated by more that 50% of morons! To bad that they wan't to keep that way... So much potencial with litle brains...
"That's all folks"
Posted by: Daniel at Wed Oct 18 00:00:53 2006 (7qtxX)
>Posted by Rhymes With Right
Threats to the head state is the same like threats directed to you. They are just words! Is a threat an action?!That's the diference between real people and psico people. Real people live reality and punish action, psico people punish words! Wake up!
I'm not saying that some prevention should be made, but not like that, a person that says what thinks is not a psico, but a free minded person! Do you know what that is? Do you understand my semi-literated words?!
Daniel Campelo
Posted by: Daniel Campelo at Wed Oct 18 00:09:00 2006 (7qtxX)
In the case of a threat against a government official -- in particular, the President of the US -- there is a special statute that applies.
The girl was investigated and found not to be serious -- case closed, except for the whining by her and her parents.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Oct 18 01:13:38 2006 (4nXaP)
Tell your friend Julia that she and/or her parents are more than welcome to post a response here on the comment thread -- or email it to me and I will post it on my site. I'm all for giving them equal time to present their side of the story in their own words.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Oct 18 01:16:11 2006 (4nXaP)
Instead we have whiners over what was no more than a brief inconvenience due to the young lady's flonious actions.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Oct 18 15:37:22 2006 (4rUAi)
We the people are not Bush or his goverment. Bush is on power the first time because people were lazy to come and vote for what is right and moral. On the second term he was elected because people were afraid.
Well we are not afraid anymore. We are not afraid of the arabs and their oil dependency. We do not need them and they certainly do not need us. Jews might need the arabs for their holy wars but we don't. It is time to go our way as a nation because if not we will pay the price with the countries that have real weapons of mass destruction. China owns our debt has no democracy has weapon of mass destruction and is 4 times more populated than us. That is who we need to watch. This president and its administration is responsable for putting us at risk and exposing us to an unnecesary predicament. War crimes or impeachment, if we do not history and the world will.
Posted by: Bushimself at Thu Oct 19 01:42:31 2006 (VaG6u)
There used to be a sticker available for purchase at goth stores like 'Hot Topic' which featured the words:
"Spear Britney"
and nothing else.
Certainly, the makers of those stickers and anyone who bought them should be thrown in jail immediately. Who do these evil brats think they are? This is America! What gives them the right to use two consecutive words that could possibly, if added to several additional words to form an actual sentence, be interpreted as a threat to our president?!
Comparing this to Columbine is exactly on par with reality. Those boys were making doodles and voicing their intentions well in advance and were simply ignored. Next thing you know- boom, they did exactly as they publicly announced.
...if only we would have believed them.
But I don't trust the little brat getting of the hook so easily- I'm sure there must have been clearly detailed plans, a time and location and method for this execution of our nation's leader- and it is of grave importance that we find it before she organizes her group of honor student 14 year olds and assassinates the President!!!
***************************************************************
Posted by: Rachel at Thu Oct 19 06:16:31 2006 (eV1TO)
And yes, the words, accompanied by a picture, need to be at least looked at as a potential threat. If the stickers regarding the talentless bimbo were determined to be an actual threat, then there should have been charges and jail time.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Oct 19 10:19:14 2006 (uXfhz)
And I suppose if it was an actual threat, they did the right thing by going and questioning her. Usually, you'd monitor suspicious activity to catch the criminal in her murderous plot.
But she must have been too wily for them... in all her 14 year old nefarious scheming.
Eric Harris was 18.
1) John Wilkes Booth was a popular actor. He was pro-secession, and pro-slavery, but he would never try to kill the President.
pro-secession and pro-slavery... yeah, very peace loving man. That makes as much sense as calling someone with a name like "Rachel" anti-Semitic.
2) Lee Harvey Oswald was a family man with a baby who was also a Communist. He'd never try to kill the President.
because no man in history who has ever killed anyone was a father.
3) John Hinkley came from a good home in a nice neighborhood. he would never try to kill the President.
all killers are from the projects. Good homed/good family is a sure sign of a law-abiding individual. Was he also a 14 year old female honor student?
4) How many terrorists were "good Muslims" carrying a Koran?
-none. Good Muslims don't shed blood or kill innocent people.
How many criminals are wearing hearts, crosses or other "nice" symbols when they are arrested -- or when they commit their crime?
-on their purple Jansport backpacks full of A-graded homework and test papers? None.
But enough splitting hairs. Adult male with social/emotional/religious issues and 14 year old girl who makes straight A's.
Practically the same thing.
Posted by: Rachel at Fri Oct 20 05:05:51 2006 (eV1TO)
And please notice -- I put the term "good Muslim" in quotes because I agree with your comment. They and their religious leaders might disagree, though.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Oct 20 10:11:26 2006 (0jJSk)
Honestly, I lean more toward the Republican side than anything, which is half the reason I'm so upset by this. It strikes me as a REALLY bad time for any more bad publicity.
Luckily, it appears as though not too many people are as angry about it as I am, where as I support invasions of privacy if our government feels the need (I have nothing to hide) --and the rest of the country apparently wigs out over a few tapped phone calls.
Posted by: Rachel at Fri Oct 20 12:25:51 2006 (eV1TO)
It's been fun, Rachel.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Oct 20 13:23:59 2006 (OfTft)
But do you think it was worth the risk? It's damn near November and they've made this girl into another "public shield"-as Anne Coulter would put it. They've given her fame she wouldn't have had, and a story to use against the President- and had they not done that, she'd still be nobody, with nobody listening, making immature statements.
Now she's a political figure. A 14 year old female honor student who resembles a young Chelsea Clinton.
Don't you think it would have been better if they could have waited, I don't know, a month or so from now? Honestly, a threat could have/would have/should have been investigated privately. Why give her power, over nothing?
I don't really care if her feelings were hurt, and I don't care if her parents are pissed, I just don't understand why the administration felt they needed another Cindy Sheehan.
Posted by: Rachel at Fri Oct 20 22:44:16 2006 (eV1TO)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Oct 21 01:30:17 2006 (j0QmT)
Posted by: JUSTIN HAND at Sat Oct 21 01:57:20 2006 (PuM/W)
Fortunately your email address tells me what is "Justin Hand". Doesn't that make your keyboard sticky?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Oct 21 06:15:12 2006 (Us9kK)
Posted by: Lars Hansen at Mon Oct 23 10:25:51 2006 (7b6jI)
Contrast this case with the "stadium bombers" post from last week. That fellow is going to do hard time.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Mon Oct 23 10:44:40 2006 (QXhAX)
You came off just a tad abusive with your response to the Julia W. story.
And a "news" story is all it was, something for the networks to fill in time on the morning "news" shows, in between the latest on obesity and the hottest fall fashions.
Yea, fourteen....and she voiced her opinion. And so now she's going to have it hanging over her head for the next 20 years.
I wonder where YOU would be now, if your life had been defined by something you said when YOU were fourteen years old?
As far as her parents go, well....
We saw the interview and little Julia came off looking a lot sharper than the punks that actually care about some two-bit rap star's "bling-bling"
So I think the parents can't be doing to terrible a job.
And when all is said and done, where does the infection that is televised news get off indentifying this child by first and last name, parents names, where she goes to school, etc? Theirs got to be some accountibility on their part-Julia was only reacting to the filth the networks fill her head with.
Posted by: Francis Whatimnihay at Tue Oct 24 00:41:47 2006 (BphdX)
Posted by: Thomas at Tue Oct 24 09:57:51 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Thomas at Tue Oct 24 10:20:34 2006 (XMsZV)
And as far as the media reporting this, if you follow the story you will see that the Secret Service didn't go to the media -- Julia and her parents did. Therefore there is no confidentiality issue as she and her folks sought the publicity.
And as far as the parents go -- any parent of a child who does not monitor their internet usage is an idiot.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Oct 24 12:28:48 2006 (wfdL5)
Posted by: Thomas at Wed Oct 25 12:15:06 2006 (XMsZV)
But let's offer one more possibility -- that rather than Julia, it had been one of her parents doing the site in her name. Or someone who stole her identity. I'd bet the first questiosn asked was "Is this your website?" Did you post this?"
The reality is that what she did was likely technically illegal. I applaud the government for not pursuing the case beyond the 20-minut interview. But remember -- Julia and her parents are the folks who went to the media for publicity. Sorry that I don't have the sympathy they believe they deserve.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Oct 25 21:59:37 2006 (LvsUt)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Oct 26 08:46:20 2006 (XMsZV)
Heck, in the last decade we have had 4-5 guns confiscated at my school -- including guns in the hands of 14-year-olds. Don't give me that crap that she couldn't have laid hands on one, unless you want to argue that pretty little white honor students aren't as smart as the boys from the hood or the barrio.
And as far as getting to the President -- easy. I've pressed the flesh with candidates and a sitting VP at fundraisers and otehr events, and have for the last 20 years or so. Access is easy -- especially if you don't look suspicious. I recall one event, during my college days, when some friends and I snuck down a service corridor next to a ballroom while a presidential candidate was speaking -- only to have several shocked Secret Service agents draw their weapons when they and another candidate (Pat Robertson, in this case) turned the corner and find several clean-cut college republicans in blue blazers, red ties and khakis standing in the corridor watching Bob Dole speak through another door. It can happen.
And as i mentioned -- what is to say that the site wasn't posted in her name by an adult. Perhaps a parent?
No, it needed to be checked out -- and you are a fool if you think it didn't.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Oct 26 09:50:38 2006 (shDDg)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Oct 26 15:51:45 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Oct 26 22:15:25 2006 (c5yBj)
Posted by: Thomas at Fri Oct 27 00:34:03 2006 (XMsZV)
The SS did the right thing. If she felt that making a threat to the Pres. was OK then she is and idiot. If her parents were aware of this and let it proceed (her lawyer father would have know what would happen when she posted what she did) then they are fools for allowing their daughter to get in to all this... or they had no idea about any of her on-line activities and don't want to admit it. Either way if you don't like the policy or politics than there are much better ways to protest than depict violence against the Pres. in some myspace page. And all in all they questioned her for 15 minutes, Christ I have been handcuffed for jaywalking (really!) at 16.
Posted by: Nate at Sat Oct 28 00:18:53 2006 (4ChGi)
And, if you are a parent of a teenager and are not monitoring their activity online, you are an idiot too.
And I am an idiot for feeding the trolls. Get over yourself.
Posted by: Larry at Sat Oct 28 10:23:13 2006 (Uewxa)
Posted by: Thomas at Sat Oct 28 16:29:13 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Brenton at Mon Oct 30 14:01:22 2006 (7XQvq)
Oh, what evil things for a teacher to say!
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Nov 8 02:25:33 2006 (2NIBl)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Nov 9 01:39:04 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: John at Thu Nov 9 03:24:30 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Betty at Thu Nov 9 03:38:22 2006 (XMsZV)
I do, however, have little patience for stupid people who blame others for reacting in a logical fashion to their stupidity.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Nov 9 11:24:07 2006 (rtzPv)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Nov 9 11:52:02 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Nov 9 11:58:49 2006 (XMsZV)
Let's recap -- according to you, every child threatens to kill a major world leader. Every child and their parents then object to the police daring to question them about said threat. Every child and their parents then run to the news media with their complaints. And anyone who dares criticize them is a hateful person filled with anger and too quick to criticize -- and immature.
Sorry, but you have fallen into the basic trap that pervades much of society today -- the refusal to accept that individuals who do wrong are responsible for their actions -- and that some actions merit ridicule.
And you forget one key point here -- this got into the media because Julia and her parents went out and sought the publicity, only to be shocked that they didn't get much sympathy.
I take that earlier comment back. You are not a fool. You are a moron who doesn't even have the first idea on how to get a clue.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Nov 9 13:33:01 2006 (LENvg)
about your point on "every girl has made a threat to the president" every kid messes up, but not always in the same way. i said every child screws up, not every child makes threats. you put words in my mouth. yes, what she did was very very wrong, and i aknowlege that, but people make mistakes and learn from them, like im sure she has. i hope that you will learn that everybody has different opinions on things, but having a different opinion doesnt make you an idiot.
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Nov 9 14:51:50 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Nov 9 22:45:56 2006 (LENvg)
Posted by: Thomas at Fri Nov 10 10:26:58 2006 (XMsZV)
REALLLLLY?????
How about the opinion of my regular commenter KKKen, that the Holocaust is a hoax perpetrated to justify Jewish control of American politics and genocidal activity in the Middle East? Or his belief that the Southwestern US should be turned over to Mexico because it is "irredeemably" Hispanic and such folks are unassimilable into our culture and so must be excluded? Or his belief that Whites should control the United States and not surrender political control to members of "dark skinned" races? Do you really respect such beliefs? Or do you find them morally reprehensible, worthy of scorn and rejection, and the holders of such opinions to be pea-brained moral midgets with hearts blackened by hate?
Or what about the opinion of NAMBLA members, whose motto used to be "sex before 8, or else its too late"? Do you respect that?
For that matter, it is clear you do not respect my opinion that some opinions are unworthy of respect -- as indicated by your implicit assertion that I am a bigot and a hate-monger, with no evidence to support such an assumption on your part.
In other words, logical examination of your position shows it to be flawed, and that you are either lacking in mental acuity, logical faculties or moral values. Which is it, Thomas?
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Nov 10 11:50:43 2006 (fwA/w)
Like I said, some views don't merit respect.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Fri Nov 10 12:03:44 2006 (fwA/w)
Posted by: Thomas at Fri Nov 10 14:57:48 2006 (XMsZV)
On the other hand, I strongly disagree with the notion that actions like this yong lady's constitute a "youthful mistake".
Unlike you, I recognize that a 14-year-old is a rational moral actor -- if an immature one capable of making grave mistakes.
But a threat against the president -- or any other person -- constitutes a moral choice that anyone over the age of reason (at least in our society) knows is wrong and which cannot/should not be legitimately excused based upon the "just a kid" defense. Dumb actions can and do have consequences -- and sometimes they involve criminal charges and jail for kids Julia's age. One of my former students is in jail (as an adult) for a sexual assault committed as a 16-year old. The brother of another student is serving an extended sentence for killing of another student from our school who rejected his romantic advances -- a killing done at age 16.
And as for the parents in this case -- their overindulgence is clear based upon their blaming the authorities for even investigating their daughter's misconduct. And they are foolish for not more closely monitoring her online activity.
By the way, about my use of the word "idiot." My decision to use it was based upon the second name for Julia's MySpace group, which calls the President an idiot. I was making use of parallel structure. Think about it.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Nov 11 01:20:50 2006 (Jq0Yu)
However, would we get the same argument if the student were named LaShaquanza Brown, and her parents were an auto mechanic and a hair stylist? Or Maria Elena Rodriguez, whose dad is a day laborer and whose mom is a housekeeper (and both of whom are illegal immigrants)? And I won't get into the question of a girl named Fatima Muhammad -- regardless of what her parents did for a living. I suspect that Julia's parents wouldn't see anything objectionable about questioning those 14-year-old girls -- and that the press wouldn't be running any Outrage Stories about their questioning.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Nov 11 02:04:10 2006 (Jq0Yu)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Nov 11 12:43:42 2006 (kv6gl)
--THOMAS--
WTF? I was totally on your side up until you said- "ok, i admit, i was wrong. not all opinions merit respect"
See this is the reason liberals never get anywhere, lack of conviction. Now suddenly NOT all opinions deserve respect?! C'mon! Why is it that everyone I want to agree with is forever the least skilled debater?! Look, EVERY opinion deserves respect. NAMBLA included- the difference is, they can be prosecuted for what qualifies as a criminal opinion to have- as decided by the majority of society.
And this girl deserved to be questioned of course- IF she had actually threatened the president. I don't care how perfect and young she is- what I care about is the lack of reason needed for her to be perceived as an actual threat.
But its over now. Democrats win. Rumsfield is out- and best anyone can hope for now is that nothing else drastically stupid comes from the Republican side over the next couple years... so that they MIGHT be able to avoid losing the 2008 Presidential election.
I agree with Republicans most of the time. But I have a question(s) for the author of this post...
Do you, as a conservative, at least feel that this administration has hurt the Republican party immensely?
If there is a president you feel most likely do go down in the history books as THE worst president in American history... who would you, objectively, assess to be the most deleterious?
Posted by: Rachel at Wed Nov 15 12:41:21 2006 (2FzDa)
And as far as this administration is concerned, i certainly do have some problems with its shortcomings -- the failure to pursue a hard-line on immigration, the failure to aggressively prosecute those who leak classified information, the failure to more aggressively pursue conservative judicial nominees, etc.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Nov 15 23:29:10 2006 (nczYf)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Nov 16 09:01:40 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Thomas at Sat Dec 2 17:33:56 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Dec 2 18:56:44 2006 (RdSKh)
Posted by: Thomas at Sat Dec 2 19:05:17 2006 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Ralph at Mon Dec 25 16:00:35 2006 (XMsZV)
I didn't think so.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Mon Dec 25 16:10:54 2006 (6nT0x)
But should there be a special law protecting the president in particular? In a civilized society it would be equally illegal to threaten to murder ANY human being.
In this context a drawing or collage of a knife stabbing anyone would be illegal and subject to the same penalty. Anything less would be a fourteenth amendment violation.
Of course this case does lead to interesting questions as to what is a threat? For example if I were to say "we should do to George Bush what he has done to thousands of innocent Iraqis who got caught in the crossfire," would that be a threat?
Or what if I were to paraphrase Patrick Henry: "Caeser had his Brutus, Charles the First had his Cromwell and George Dubya Bush... may profit by their example. If this be threatening the president, make the most of it.â€
Posted by: David Kessler at Tue Jan 9 01:25:22 2007 (vlYdj)
Such a law is no different than the differential punishments handed out for the killing of cops and ambulance personnel while on duty, and has such threats have been viewed to be outside the right to free speech as guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments. And by the way -- bona fide threats against any individual are illegal under the laws of all 50 states and the District of Columbia.
Posted by: Jacob at Tue Jan 9 02:24:42 2007 (4nXaP)
Posted by: Jacob at Tue Jan 9 02:25:29 2007 (4nXaP)
And as for those statements -- i suspect the second one would pass without question, but the first does sound like a threat that would bear investigation.
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Jan 9 12:44:12 2007 (udLR9)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Jan 11 16:56:10 2007 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Jan 11 16:57:51 2007 (XMsZV)
Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Jan 11 22:46:23 2007 (3HsJp)
Posted by: Thomas at Thu Jan 18 15:09:58 2007 (XMsZV)
I was told by a Manhatten lawyer that categories of homicide reserved for peace officers were ruled unconstituonal, but that was in the 1980's so this may have changed.
As you say, threats against ANY individual ARE illegal throughout the US. So is there really a need for a law that differentiates the president. Surely it is the seriousness of the threat that determines the magnitude of the crime.
I didn't get the "inner moonbat" reference - maybe because I'm a Limey!
And Rhymes with Right - in my country you can get arrested for merely demonstrating within one kilometre (five furlongs!) of the Houses of Parliament! Please note I said "demonstrating" not "assembling" Even a one-person demonstration is a breach of that law - as a woman found out recently when she read out the names of the British (Gulf) war dead while standing outside the gates of nearby Downing Street!
Personally I think that Members of Parliament who voted to enact such legislation have struck such a grievous blow against the right to freedom of speech that they have forfeited their right to life and are legitimate targets for assassination.
Posted by: David Kessler at Mon Jan 22 23:51:09 2007 (vlYdj)
Their defeat at the ballot box and replacement with lovers of liberty, but not their murder.
Posted by: Jacob at Tue Jan 23 03:47:33 2007 (4nXaP)
What if they curtailed my right to freedom of speech in a broader area than just 5 furlongs of parliament? If they could do that then they could reduce the likelohood that they WILL be defeated at the ballot box. How far do they have to go in violating the right to freedom of speech before I can defend my right with force?
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