November 28, 2006

Dennis Prager Dead Wrong On Ellison & Koran

Now I don't make a secret of the fact that I am not a big fan of Islam. Indeed, it concerns me that more Muslims and Islamic institutions don't stand up and take a hardline stance against terrorism. And I certainly opposed the election of Keith Ellison, a Muslim, to the US Congress -- though my reason was his history of anti-Semitic activity and his refusal to be truthful about those activities.

However, Ellison was was elected by the voters of his district. And Ellison, as a Muslim, has every right to choose to take his oath of office with his hand on a Koran.

Unfortunately, talk-show host and syndicated columnist Dennis Prager disagrees.

Keith Ellison (D.-Minn.), the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran.

He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.

First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.

Forgive me, but America should not give a hoot what Keith Ellison's favorite book is. Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress. In your personal life, we will fight for your right to prefer any other book. We will even fight for your right to publish cartoons mocking our Bible. But, Mr. Ellison, America, not you, decides on what book its public servants take their oath.

Uh, Dennis -- the United States Constitution has a little thing called the First Amendment that was added to is about 215 years ago, And said provision includes the free exercise of religion and precludes the establishment of religion. That should demolish your entire position right there -- but it seems to me that you do not give a damn about little niceties like freedom of religion. In that regard, I could argue that it is you who are out to do even graver damage to this country than you allege Ellison's use of his holy book will do -- but I won't engage in rhetoric quite as heated as yours.

Devotees of multiculturalism and political correctness who do not see how damaging to the fabric of American civilization it is to allow Ellison to choose his own book need only imagine a racist elected to Congress. Would they allow him to choose Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the Nazis' bible, for his oath? And if not, why not? On what grounds will those defending Ellison's right to choose his favorite book deny that same right to a racist who is elected to public office?

I'm no PC or multi-culti fanatic, but I am a believer in the notion that we as a people do not compel a religious act against someone's will. That is why I support the right of people to opt-out of the Pledge of Allegiance over the words "under God" because they are atheists. I do not believe that their free exercise of (non-)religion is a threat to America. Neither is the practice of permitting individuals who will not take an oath to "affirm" their truthfulness before a court, or the common practice of allowing a book other than the Bible to be used. Oh, and to answer your question -- if some moron wants to use "Mein Kampf", more power to him or her. Such an individual will not last long in office -- and might not even make it through his or her term before being forced out.

Of course, Ellison's defenders argue that Ellison is merely being honest; since he believes in the Koran and not in the Bible, he should be allowed, even encouraged, to put his hand on the book he believes in. But for all of American history, Jews elected to public office have taken their oath on the Bible, even though they do not believe in the New Testament, and the many secular elected officials have not believed in the Old Testament either. Yet those secular officials did not demand to take their oaths of office on, say, the collected works of Voltaire or on a volume of New York Times editorials, writings far more significant to some liberal members of Congress than the Bible. Nor has one Mormon official demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon. And it is hard to imagine a scientologist being allowed to take his oath of office on a copy of "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard.

Frankly, I'd have great admiration for any Jew who chose to bring the family Torah for their swearing-in -- it would indicate an integrity that is sadly lacking in politics today. Ditto a Mormon who chose to use the Book of Mormon (which I believe to be no more inspired than the Koran) -- though since Mormons accept the Bible, I understand why it has never been an issue. And if someone wants to use take their oath on Dianetics, which is at the heart of L. Ron Hubbard's fraud upon the gullible and over-privileged, they can do so. Indeed, if someone chooses to take the oath on no book whatsoever -- and omit the customary "so help me God" at the end, I am troubled not in the least. The reality is that our founding document encourages such pluralism. Frankly, my preference would be that every public official take their oath of office upon an open copy of the US Constitution in the hope of inspiring fidelity to THAT document.

So why are we allowing Keith Ellison to do what no other member of Congress has ever done -- choose his own most revered book for his oath?

The answer is obvious -- Ellison is a Muslim. And whoever decides these matters, not to mention virtually every editorial page in America, is not going to offend a Muslim. In fact, many of these people argue it will be a good thing because Muslims around the world will see what an open society America is and how much Americans honor Muslims and the Koran.

No, you sanctimonious twit -- the reason is the First Amendment.

This argument appeals to all those who believe that one of the greatest goals of America is to be loved by the world, and especially by Muslims because then fewer Muslims will hate us (and therefore fewer will bomb us).

No, it is because the greatest goal of America ought to be to be a beacon of freedom, faithful to the words of the Constitution. I don't give a damn if Muslims love us, like us, or hate our guts. Frankly, I want Muslims to FEAR us, and to be aware that in the event that jihadis continue to attack us (and other Muslims explicitly or implicitly give them support) we will see to it that Islam ceases to exist on any significant scale anywhere in the world if that is what is necessary to safeguard American lives and freedom.

But these naive people do not appreciate that America will not change the attitude of a single American-hating Muslim by allowing Ellison to substitute the Koran for the Bible. In fact, the opposite is more likely: Ellison's doing so will embolden Islamic extremists and make new ones, as Islamists, rightly or wrongly, see the first sign of the realization of their greatest goal -- the Islamicization of America.

Perhaps then you should suggest that Ellison should be forbidden from serving in Congress at all, given that his presence there will also be seen as a step towards the Islamicization of America by those same deranged followers of the false prophet Muhammad.

When all elected officials take their oaths of office with their hands on the very same book, they all affirm that some unifying value system underlies American civilization. If Keith Ellison is allowed to change that, he will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9/11. It is hard to believe that this is the legacy most Muslim Americans want to bequeath to America. But if it is, it is not only Europe that is in trouble.

Gee, Dennis, a similar argument was made in the 19th Century about allowing Catholic school children to use a Catholic translation of the Bible instead of the KJV in public schools back during the 19th century. After all, the KJV was seen as the source of the underlying value system of America -- and use of the Douay-Rhiems was seen as a step towards establishing Papal Tyranny over America. Your argument is no less offensive and bigoted than that of the nativists who burned convents, ransacked churches and trampled the Eucharist in response to such a reasonable demand by Catholics.

Oh, and by the way, Dennis -- if you check Article VI of the Constitution, no book is required for any oath of office, but a religious test for office is forbidden. How do you plan on getting around THAT unifying value as you seek to impose the Bible upon Keith Ellison?

UPDATE: Eugene Volokh refutes Prager well at National Review.

UPDATE II: A great piece on the matter in the Star Tribune presents the issue more or less as i see it -- and refutes the claim of left-wing bloggers that Prager made up the claim that Ellison wanted to use the Koran for his oath.

Ellison, who told the Star Tribune shortly after his election victory that he planned to use the Qur'an, was attending meetings in Washington on Thursday and could not be reached for comment, according to Dave Colling, his spokesman. But Ellison defended his plan to use the Qur'an, Islam's holiest book, in an interview with Abdi Aynte, a reporter from Minneapolis who writes for the Minnesota Monitor, an independently produced political news blog.

"The Constitution guarantees for everyone to take the oath of office on whichever book they prefer," Ellison was quoted as saying. "And that's what the freedom of religion is all about."

And I'd like to point out to my liberal friends that many conservatives are piling on prager over his outrageous column -- including folks like Rep. Tom Tancredo, who is among the most conservative folks in Congress.

MORE AT: Stop the ACLU, The Liberty Papers, Riehl World View, Kobayashi Maru, Andrew Sullivan, Politics & Culture, Minnesota Monitor, PolGeek, America vs. The World, One Country Voice, Outside The Beltway, Bullwinkle Blog, Noisy Room, Taylor Marsh, What Is The War?, Mahablog, California Conservative, Professor Bainbridge, A Newer World, Gina Cobb, Let Freedom Ring, Sister Toldjah, Tammy Bruce, Lifelike Pundits, Hot Air, Wake Up America, Conservative Blog Therapy, Shelbinator, Resonance, WritingUp, Florida Masochist, Shape of Days, Eclectic Times, Cox Family, Christifideles, Where I Stand, The Agitator

Posted by: Greg at 03:04 PM | Comments (21) | Add Comment
Post contains 1901 words, total size 15 kb.

1 The question all of this raises, and which I was trying to get at in the post on which you kindly commented, is OK then... What common basis can we find as a nation to ensure that people are sincere and take seriously their commitments to protecting the nation, upholding its Constitution and telling the truth? It's an honest question. My answer is simply that we can't have 1000 answers to it. Diversity and pluralism and freedom of conscience are amazingly good things but they are not the only absolutes and this is a question of several good things in conflict. While the one answer we decide to agree upon may not be religious, it had better be common or we're cooked. For the moment, the answer we have is a religious icon (the Protestant Bible). I would submit that that was not an arbitrary choice, but we can disagree on that and still be left with the question: OK then, what? It is a fundamentally conservative position: X exists. It exists for a reason. We may disagree with the reason or not understand all of it, but we'd better be really really sure about what will result by removing X before we do so. We may already be past that point. Again, thanks for commenting on my blog.

Posted by: Kobayashi Maru at Tue Nov 28 23:00:14 2006 (en/7R)

2 So not only do you want Ellison to swear on a Bible, but you insist upon it being a PROTESTANT Bible -- I guess you still harbor some suspicions about the loyalty of Catholics, don't you. Not to mention the dual loyalty of Jews, right?

I, on the other hand, insist upon no more than the Constitution requires -- and as argued above, there is a case to be made for the oath being taken upon a copy of the Constitution itself.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Nov 29 00:00:40 2006 (Ft4VS)

3 Please don't read into my comments or my post (http://kmaru.blogspot.com/2006/11/untied-states-of-america.html) more than is there. The questions, it seems to me, are:
- Do we have a standard for oath-taking today?
- If so, what is it and how broad is it? (There is plenty of evidence, e.g., with JFK and LBJ that would appear to suggest it is broader than the Protestant Bible and I personally don't have a problem with that.)
- What are the reasons that such a standard exists?
- Do we need a standard at all? (I believe that we do.)
- What are the ramifications of changing the standard?

Only then can we get to the question of what the new standard should be. Your suggestion of swearing on the Constitution itself sounds like a reasonable one.

What all of this raises is an issue that Ravi Zacharias brings up in his book "Deliver us from Evil" in which he postulates that TOTAL personal freedom and plurality of standards for everything (e.g., language, culture, the nature of truth, etc.) leads to the dissolution of the nation.

Posted by: Kobayashi Maru at Wed Nov 29 02:19:47 2006 (en/7R)

4

This could be a can of worms issue, as well it should be.  The framers of the Constitution never in their wildest nightmares would have considered the depraved state of our country today, a country founded on Christian principles and beliefs that has come close to denial when it comes to such historically accurate roots.   They never considered or would have imposed a particular sect as the National favorite; the issue which has charged to the forefront as if it had the same meaning 200 years ago; being Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian or any of the other similar yet different Christian organized religions.  At the time of the writing of our most sacred documents there was no hint that Muslims, Atheists, Buddhists or any of the other non-Christian abominations were a factor in that society and to give those arguments room in such a debate would be similar to wondering if Washington’s troops should have checked their laptop computer’s to see what the weather was going to be prior to crossing the Delaware.  It was generally accepted that Americans were basically Christians and that all the minor issues after that could be tolerated.



Posted by: T F Stern at Wed Nov 29 04:20:02 2006 (z1IoH)

5 Sorry if I went overboard.

How about if I answer teh questions.

1) Yes, we do have a standard -- and it is contained in Article VI of the Constitution, which requires an oath or affirmation to support the Constitution and forbids a religious test for office. As such, Ellison may take his oath on the book of his choosing -- or none at all. For that matter, he may simply "affirm" his support for the Constitution without any oath or book. Any deviation from the Article VI standard is a Constitutional abomination.

2) See my answer to question 1.

3) It is the standard set by the Founding Fathers at the Constitutional Convention, a body made up of Christians of various denominations, as well as some folks who would arguably be classified as Unitarians or Deists if we examined their writings closely enough. The reason for this is that the goal of the Founders was to create a society in which individual conscience, not government fiat, determined religious expressions of faith by Americans.

4) Yes, we do need a standard -- hence Article VI of the Constitution, which is further amplified by the First Amendment's guarantees of religious freedom.

5) The ramifications would be the abrogation of the Constitution of the United States on a fundamental level, and therefore the delegitimization of the United States government in the eyes of those of us who consider that document to be the keystone to American political life. It would also mean that so-called "conservative" Christians would have become no better than "evolving standard" liberals who are willing to ignore the Constitution and substitute their personal preferences when it suits their whims.

Indeed, I am not suggesting a NEW standard -- I am suggesting that we continue to abide by the CONSTITUTIONAL standard that has been in place since the founding of the Republic. It is you and Prager who are suggesting a new standard that deviates from the one set by the Founders in the Constitution. I reject that change as unwise, unnecessary and unconstitutional.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Nov 29 10:45:54 2006 (C+x84)

6 I will have to agree with KM and TF Stern...

Our elected officials have a responsibility to THIS country and its principals and the Constitution! In my opinion, I do not see this as a "freedom of religion" issue! No one is attempting to hamper Ellison's freedom of religion...I'm sure no one in this pc society will say one thing about the "prayer rug" and his "praying toward Mecca" in his TAXPAYER PAID FOR office (I personally..call me what you will, find THAT troubling in and of itself..but that is another issue)!!

It is the values and principals of OUR country that must be maintained, and I do not believe swearing on the "Koran" which is AGAINST the "infidels" (US) is acceptable nor should it be!

Article VI of the Constitution states: "... but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." And THAT was upheld as Ellison was ABLE to run for office despite his religion and was, unfortunately I feel, elected!!

The Oath of Office, which does not state the Bible must be used (and in agreement with both KM and TF Stern, again, our founders could NEVER have imagined society today), does state: "....shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution" which is under the Authority of the United States and again, the Koran is totally AGAINST what our Constitution and the laws of OUR land stand for!! So my question, if Ellison insists on slapping the American people in the face...who and what will he be loyal to? We already know he has some "honesty" issues!

BTW, thank you for visiting my blog!

Posted by: onecountryvoice at Thu Nov 30 06:27:31 2006 (YadGF)

7 But don't you see that compelling the performance of a religious ritual (swearing on Christian Scriptures) is, in fact, a religious test?

Under your argument, by the way, Ellison is ineligible for office because of an inability to support the Constitution.  Is that really your intent?

Posted by: Jacob at Thu Nov 30 07:26:14 2006 (Cz0G3)

8 Where is Prager getting his information from? Did he make this up, or what? He’s full of crap (as usual). The swearing-in ceremony for the House of Representatives never includes a religious book.

An oath is not required either, as the Constitution in all instances includes the option of affirming rather than swearing an oath, since many Christians (Quakers and Mennonites, for example) believe that Jesus fordabe the taking of oaths (Matthew 23:16-22).

Why are so many Americans (especially the right wing pundit types) so ignorant of their own Constitution and traditions?

What happened to the principle of religious liberty? It’s not really liberty if one can be coerced into conforming to a belief one doesn’t share, is it? Prager’s outrage is simple bigotry, nothing more, nothing less. It’s disgusting and un-American.

Posted by: A Hermit at Thu Nov 30 09:20:23 2006 (Ze7RI)

9 Hermit -- I suggest you look at the quote in Update II. Ellison himself brought up the issue in an interview with reporters.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Thu Nov 30 23:16:16 2006 (fqF/s)

10 Regardless of weather or not a US. Representative is or is not required to swear on anything, and since Ellison himself brought it up, this is an important issue that must be addressed.

You wrote: “Frankly, my preference would be that every public official take their oath of office upon an open copy of the US Constitution in the hope of inspiring fidelity to THAT document.” This is probably the best solution for a multicultural country whose founders never envisioned such a dilemma when the constitution was written. (Note: If an Islamacist swears upon a copy of the US Constitution or even the Minneapolis phone book, Islam would still consider it an admissible lie in the cause of advancing world-dominating Islam.)

I agree with T. F. Stern’s comments: “The framers of the Constitution never in their wildest nightmares would have considered the depraved state of our country today, a country founded on Christian principles and beliefs that has come close to denial when it comes to such historically accurate roots. . . . It was generally accepted that Americans were basically Christians and that all the minor issues after that could be tolerated.”

Frankly, I think it’s time for a constitutional amendment. See Faultline USA for details.

Posted by: Faultline USA at Fri Dec 1 18:12:10 2006 (mb+YX)

11 Actually, Faultline, I don't believe that thee is any thinking in your position at all -- merely emoting like a gutless liberal.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Sat Dec 2 09:36:00 2006 (+uXuW)

12

I love how the CAIR group is demanding Prager step down from his Holocaust mongering position. Speaking of which I hear there will be soon a convention in Iran on the subject where accredited historians will attempt to get at more truth.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Tue Dec 5 08:47:14 2006 (DZbll)

13 Holocaust-deniers? do not associate teh word "scholar" with such moral midgets.

And i've already commented elsewhere about CAIR trying to dictate to a Holocaust memorial who should be on their pannel while acting to bring about a completion of Hitler's work by supporting terrorists.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Dec 5 12:39:40 2006 (MNaSa)

14

The Islamophobia on the American pseudo-right pathologically dwarfs any overwrought McCarthyism of the 1950s.  Note: The Soviet Empire went, (but Russia prevails) and so is the American Empire on the way out but I doubt,with Hispanic revanchism on the move, America the nation will stay as intact as Mother Russia.


Posted by: Ken Hoop at Tue Dec 5 12:49:35 2006 (nUAbS)

15 KKKen -- the US will survive, as long as folks like you who wish to dismember her do not get anywhere near the reins of power.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Tue Dec 5 13:56:59 2006 (Vf/mU)

16 I'm with you-- Why would anyone want someone else to take an oath upon a book in which they do not believe?

The Koran refers to Christians and Jews as "People of the Book." Ironic that we have all this hysteria over Holy Books.

We do not impel people to practice or not practice religions in America. I like your Constitution idea, too.

Posted by: Ms Cornelius at Tue Dec 5 16:13:25 2006 (hiEIa)

17 This article blatantly lies about Dennis Prager's comments. First, he does not object to the oath being done on the Koran, he simply wants the Bible present. Second, Prager isn't even protestant, he's Jewish. It's not a religious issue, but a historical one. Given the slant of this blog, I KNOW who the dumbass is!

Posted by: Who Ever at Wed Dec 13 02:45:00 2006 (tBLyx)

18 Actually, I don't lie at all. I took Prager's original piece and commented on it as written. His later clarifications do not fix the essential problem.

And let me respond to you further:

1) I know Prager is a Jew -- and even defend him as such in another post on this same controversy. Indeed, I suggest you show me where I indicated he was a Protestant, as I do not find it here.

2) Requiring the Bible to be "present" is no less a religious test -- and no less offensive and (dare I say it) bigotted.

3) No, it is not historical, as we have even had Presidents take the oath without a Bible, or even merely affirm their support for the Constitution without taking an oath. Dennis' position is itself ahistorical.

4) The slant of my blog? Oh, you mean unapologetically conservative and Republican, not to mention Christian?

5) Who is the dumbass? That would be you, for posting your comment.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at Wed Dec 13 11:04:56 2006 (XxInX)

Posted by: Albina-ks at Sat Jun 28 15:27:41 2008 (C5kH5)

20 respect

Posted by: Papa at Wed Aug 6 05:49:01 2008 (WplST)

Posted by: Albina-kx at Fri Nov 28 15:42:02 2008 (WI/IV)

Hide Comments | Add Comment

Comments are disabled. Post is locked.
37kb generated in CPU 0.0078, elapsed 0.0172 seconds.
21 queries taking 0.0107 seconds, 50 records returned.
Powered by Minx 1.1.6c-pink.
[/posts]